Hanna (1:11): Hey Kara. Welcome to the show. 

Kara (1:12): Hi, Hannah. Hi, Michael. 

Michael (1:14): Hi there. 

Hanna (1:15): So great to have you here. So Kara, we know you love cocktails, just like Michael and me. So what are your favorite cocktails to make at home? 

Kara (1:22): Well, these days I've been making definitely drinks that are on the easier side. And I've been making a lot of what I've been referring to as cheater nightcaps. It's basically a no recipe kind of thing. It's just, um, 50-50-ish, whatever Amaro I have on hand and whatever brown spirit I have on hand and just splashing them together in a glass. No garnish, just easy. 

Hanna (1:54): I like that. Sounds lovely. 

Michael (1:56): Sounds like that'll do the trick. So speaking of cocktails, you're the Contributing Spirits Editor of Wine Enthusiast. Tell us about the publication and its approach to spirits and cocktail coverage. 

Kara (2:08): Uh, well, it's definitely unique being the Spirits Editor for a wine magazine. And actually it's been a lot of fun, um, being able to cover that world. We have people on the magazine who are really deep dive experts in all the various wine regions and varietals. And a lot of them actually live in the areas where they cover the wine and the vineyards there.

So, probably my number one role over there is eviewing spirits for them. Then I also write longer features for the magazine. I write shorter trend-focused pieces for the front of the book. And, uh, and then for digital, I'll write longer trend pieces and business stories and the occasional impassioned op-ed for digital.

Michael (3:00): So speaking of stories, you recently did a story on cruise enthusiasts who are staging faux voyages at home. Do you think you're expanding into travel writing at this point? 

Kara (3:10): Well, I definitely think it goes hand in hand with the booze beat. Uh, obviously in the “before times” we were all traveling a lot more and that's definitely something that I miss about my job these days. But I do actually get, um, a lot of travel fever these days. 

And I think I am sort of expanding little by little into more traditional travel writing. But I think it's always been on the periphery, you know, with the spirits industry because spirits are made in such far flung places. And when we travel, we're looking at um, you know, bar culture and bars as well as distilleries. And it all kind of goes hand in hand. 

Hanna (3:49): Couldn't agree more that travel and cocktails, they go together. Beyond Wine Enthusiast magazine, you also freelance for numerous publications, like Bloomberg, The Wall Street Journal and Punch. So how do you approach writing your article differently for each of them?

Kara (4:05): Well, every publication has its own voice and its own audience. So hopefully if I'm writing something for Wine Enthusiast, it is something that would be specific for their audience. If I'm writing for the Wall Street Journal, they have a very different approach and a very different audience. 

Wine Enthusiast is a really interesting kind of publication because it's sort of a hybrid consumer and trade publication. You know, it serves both. I do some very trade focused stories for online and then some very, very consumer, like very deep dive recipe, like here's how to make these drinks, that really have a very, very much a consumer audience. 

And The Wall Street Journal by comparison, I mean, it's a very, obviously it's a fully consumer publication and they're looking at things that are more of like a breath of fresh air kind of counterpoint to the business side of the magazine. The Off Duty section is very much a beast of its own. 

Michael (5:15): Definitely a little bit of escapism

Kara (5:17): For sure. 

Hanna (5:19): Yeah. So how are you finding your next stories? 

Kara (5:20): Well, it's kind of putting together a lot of different pieces to the puzzle. Traditionally, I'd say I'm getting out, I'm going to bars and I'm traveling and going to trade shows. And that's obviously not something I'm doing much of. I've actually been getting out to bars and restaurants for the very first time in the past couple of weeks. 

Hanna (5:44): How are you feeling? How did you like it? 

Kara (5:46): I miss it and it freaks me out all at the same time. I'm not ready to do the indoor dining thing yet. Usually in the “before times,” I would be thinking about talking to people in person for story ideas. And these days it's also, more than ever, it's talking to people on the phone. 

So lot of phone interviews these days I'm definitely doing a lot more sleuthing around on social media and probably sifting more through press releases than I typically would. And then it's also a lot of tastings, a lot of tastings. And I feel like all of that kind of comes together to file under reporting in some ways it's all about trying to put together different pieces of the puzzle. And trying to find a story idea that way and a trend. 

Michael (6:32): Are these tastings done remotely or via Zoom? 

Kara (6:37): I don't love Zoom tastings. I do very, very few of them. I do a lot of intense tasting on my own. 

Hanna (6:48): Can you tell us why you're not a fan of Zoom tastings? 

Kara (6:50): Ooh, pointed question. I just, I don't feel like I get a lot out of them to be, to be honest. I know that everyone's just trying to do their best with what we have right now, but it's, I was never a big fan of the desk side tasting to begin with. It always felt a bit forced to me. And a lot of small group tastings, often I felt like I enjoyed the group aspect. 

You know, I enjoyed seeing other people and the socialization. Boy do I miss the socialization these days. But often I'd come away with other people's ideas and perceptions of what we just tried and the events were fun, but it also never really added a whole lot. And now with these online tastings, its, you know, it takes away the group aspect. Yeah, you're just still in a room sipping alone, just a little less alone. 

Hanna (7:49): True

Kara (7:50): It's just not fun. I don't, I just don't get a lot out of it. 

Hanna (7:52): Yeah. It's not the same, I mean, you know, a human to human face to face.I mean that there's no substitute to. 

Kara (7:55): Yeah. I do like hearing what people have to say, but frankly, I move a lot faster on my own. And I like to set up blind flights and that's how I evaluate. 

Michael (8:07): Clearly the bar industry is in crisis. It's been heartbreaking seeing so many bars, closing many for good. What do you see as the future of the bar experience post COVID? Do you see us going back to normal quote unquote, or do you think things have changed irrevocably? 

Kara (8:20): Both. I think that when we can, things are definitely going to…some aspects will go back to the way they were. But I feel like we've really lost a lot of bar culture. Things like the closing of Pegu Club, for example. 

And maybe it was, you know, maybe it was the time. Maybe it was the smart move to get out while the getting was good. I don't know the behind the scenes details, but I think that when we're out of this, we're going to see a much younger crowd coming in as they would have anyway. But I feel like we're going to see a lot of the ties with the cocktail renaissance broken, you know, people are going to come into it. 

I think there's going to be more of that high volume raucous feeling to start, because everyone's going to be so anxious to make money. Oh, everyone's just starved for making money. And I think that genteel, speakeasy culture that we all enjoyed, I think that's going to go by the wayside. I think its going a long time before that comes back, kind of breaks my heart a little bit. Because that was one of the things that really drew me to the industry. 

Michael (9:35): Us too. But by the same token bars and bartenders and bar owners should be able to make a stable living. 

 Hanna (9:42): And they are resilient in our industry. People are resilient people and I think they will not give up and it's going to take some time, but I strongly believe that our industry will come back slowly but surely.

Kara (9:55): Oh, it is coming back. No doubt. 

Hanna (10:00): You know, you talked about it briefly about finding your story. So what is your approach to finding a good story? Does it come from PR pitches, like me and my colleagues, or mostly from social media? I know you talk about spending more time reviewing the press release now, which is a good news for us.

Kara (10:22): I think finding a good story, it's about the people behind the story. It's about the story behind the story. It's a good story. It's almost never something I'm going to find from a press release, but there might be something I can take from the press release that might help fill out the story that might help inform it, point me in the right direction initially. 

But I find the stories that are most compelling to write and to research and hopefully to read, are the ones that are just completely out of the box, you know? It’s people doing something unusual, you know, and people who are colorful enough to really push a story forward. It's really about the people. It's almost never about a product, you know, products are nice, but a good story is about the people. 

Hanna (11:10): I agree. It's all about people. So speaking of people, so bartenders and bar owners who want to get your attention, knowing that you write for so many different publications. So what are the top three do's and don'ts for pitching you?

Kara (11:30): Well, these days, since I'm covering more spirits stories than bar stories just because there aren't as many bars to cover. Um, I think probably the number one thing I need people to do is to actually send me bottles. You know, it's like the lotto, you gotta be in it to win it. 

And sometimes the best way to get my attention is to send a little something that I can taste and look at and hold in my hand. And there's some really interesting things. Some like crazy, interesting things out there, but if I don't know about it, I don't know about it.

And I can specifically send people to Wine Enthusiast magazine, the website, winemag.com. Um, at the bottom of the screen there's a “Submit for rating” link that people really seem to miss and that's where you can find my mailing address. It's where you find the calendar for the spirits categories we’re testing for the year ahead, that we're prioritizing, all the forms, all the details. Can I talk about how much I hate embargoes? 

Michael (12:35): Yeah, why not. 

Kara (12:36): Well, if you want to talk about things, the do's and don'ts for getting my attention, that's one way to get my attention in a negative way. Right now I am so POed at all the embargoed press releases that seem to be coming my way lately. There are so many of them. I can't keep track of when the embargoes are and although I would never intentionally break an embargo, I'm finding that it's almost a deterrent these days to me. 

Um, whenever I receive a release about a restaurant is opening, but I can't talk about it for another two weeks, or this bottle's coming up, but I can't talk about it for another two weeks. And it also signals to me that somebody else, another journalist is getting the exclusive on that information and I'm just being muzzled until that comes out.

Hanna (13:27): I think I know one more don't for pitching Kara Newman.

Kara (13:28): Uh oh... 

Hanna (13:30): Don't pitch her national cocktail days. 

Kara (13:33): You're absolutely right, Hanna. I dislike all of those fake booze holidays. No, thank you. I will not be writing about those. Yeah, don't waste your time. 

Michael (13:44): You do a lot of stories focusing on cocktail recipes. I noticed that you recently did a piece on the Four Horsemen of Coincidence by Chris Elford, at Seattle's Navy Strength. It's an intriguing cocktail on the face of it. Mixing riesling, tequila and mezcal. It definitely got my attention. How do you choose cocktails to spotlight? 

Kara (14:05): Well, that one was just so fascinating because it had so many different elements for Wine Enthusiast. There was a wine component, it was an infused Riesling. So, you know, ding ding ding, that's already one way to get the attention. It was, um, a recipe that involves sustainability. So kind of a trend, very interesting point these days. And it was also a part of a cocktail compilation called Optimistic Cocktails that Claire Sprouse from Hunky Dory put together to benefit the hospitality industry. 

And that's also incredibly compelling, timely. I love that it benefits the industry and I was very happy to have an opportunity to give them a platform. If it's sold, I am delighted if I sold any copies. I hope I didn't deter anyone from buying copies by publishing one great recipe. And also Chris Elford is just so compelling as well. I mean, all his projects out in Seattle are just fascinating. He's always opening up new concepts. And it was a good recipe. It was something someone could actually do at home. It wasn't crazy complicated. One of the things that drives me crazy is recipes that are so baroque that no one could ever possibly do them at home.

Hanna (15:20): I'm with you on that. 

Michael (15:21): Especially now people want simplicity. They don't want stressful recipes. 

Hanna (15:23): It's already a stressful life already. 

Kara (15:24): I know this is why I'm doing my easy cheater nightcaps. 

Michael (15:26): You're also a very prolific author on the subject of cocktails. You recently wrote “Cocktails with a Twist,” “Nightcap,” “Road Soda,” “Shake, Stir, Sip,” “Cocktails for a Crowd,” you name it. You've been very productive over the last several years. How do you choose the topics for your books and what books do you have in the pipeline? 

Kara (15:53): I'm not working on anything right now. 

Hanna (15:54): You’re not?

Kara (15:56): I'm not, it's the first time in a very long time I don't have a book project. I've sent them sort of noodling around actually outside of the cocktail universe. So I'm going to kind of sit on that for a while, cause I'm still kind of mulling it over. But generally when I'm thinking about cocktail books, they all tend to have that same, very, um, accessible home-friendly through line. That's, I think, what I've become known for, with these cocktail books. 

Hanna (16:28): Yeah. It's very home bartender friendly. Anyone can read and understand and try recipes. So yeah, we love it. All right. So speaking of books, um, you know, Michael and I are bookworms and we enjoy reading your book reviews on Liquor.com, including the top 10 cocktail books to read this fall. And guess what? We read them all. 

Kara (16:54): I am not surprised. We're all such prolific readers. 

Hanna (16:58): Thank you. Thank you. As you know, a lot of bartenders have written or are planning to write books. So how do you choose books to review? 

Kara (17:06): Number one, you need to send me a book.

Hanna (17:08): Yeah, just like tasting spirits. Reading is believing. 

Kara (17:14): Yeah. 

Michael (17:16): Do you prefer an actual book or do you prefer galleys or what's digital?

Kara (17:21): These days I prefer galleys. It's just, it's easier. It's faster. It's less expensive. I know these days margins are tight everywhere, especially if you're working with a publicist or a publishing house. Have them send a press release followed by an e-galley. That's the best way to do it for me these days, and you're self published even better. I mean, those are harder for me to find because no one is sending with me. I might not even know they exist. 

Hanna (17:48): So question about self-publishing. So a lot of people are doing that these days. So does that change anything? I mean, because obviously, you know, a lot of people prefer to be published by major publishing houses, but I noticed that a lot of people are doing their own self publishing. Does that matter to you as a reviewer? 

Kara (18:10): No, no, no. I love how scrappy everybody is these days too. You know, I give a lot of credit to people who have pivoted from bartending to writing books, writing articles, bringing out their own spirits. People are just so innovative and resilient. It really makes me so happy.

In terms of self published books, I mean, I definitely would caution people to make sure that recipes will work for home bartenders, um, is kind of a danger for bartenders who are used to complicated recipes and they're trying to put it out into the world. Uh, just kind of think about the audience. I beg of you to think of the audience!

Michael (18:53): And now for the listener question segments of our episode…

Kara (18:55): Uh oh, I’m nervous.

Michael (18:56): Don't worry. Today we have a two part question from GN Chan, Master Mixologist and founder of Double Chicken Please, a new bar opening on the Lower East Side. GN would like to know your thoughts on craft cocktail bar pop-ups and canned cocktails produced by craft bars, and if they're here to stay. 

Kara (19:14): Okay, alright, so pop-ups first. I think they're fun. I think they definitely have a place, especially now when  traditional formats are kind of falling by the wayside. Canned cocktails. Okay. I am of two minds when it comes to canned cocktails. I think that it's a smart play right now. And I think when bars are fully opened, I think they are going to…poof, disappear pretty quickly. 

Michael (19:47): Why? 

Kara (19:48): Because there won't be a need for it. Right now, there's very much a need for it. I think that for bars, they're going to go back to focusing on “a minute” drinks made on the spot. I think probably distilleries will still have some canned cocktails out. Those I don't see going away. This is where I'm sort of hedging my bets. I think for bars, they will go away. 

For distilleries, I think they're here to stay. I think for some of the larger brands they're in the stores and they're in like grocery stores and retail outlets, liquor stores. I think the sales there also probably will trickle away as we get closer to bars opening again and restaurants normalizing again. And it should be interesting to see what stays on the shelves. I don't think it's going to be anywhere near the volume we're seeing right now. 

Michael (20:48): Interesting. Cause you know, a lot of bars are seeing these canned cocktails as a valuable revenue stream…

Kara (20:51): For sure! They’re so fun..

Michael (20:53): That also helped post COVID when you know, their financials are still pretty precarious. So you don't really see that panning out? 

Kara (21:01): I think once people can go back to bars and have the proper experience, there'll be less need. Right now, it's awesome. It's fun. Drinking outdoors is great. I think that people are road tripping and drinking in parks, and it absolutely fills a need. And further down the line, it won't. It'll just be something fun unless there's something really unique about it. You know, it's really eye catching. It's an important part of their revenue stream. It's something they can't get any other way. 

Hanna (21:37): I mean, I prefer going into the bars and really watching bartenders in action and really experiencing it. So I think that would be my choice, but... 

Michael (21:40): Well, but it's also a great way for the bar to protect their brands and for people to experience cocktails from other cities from other countries, eventually, in the comfort of their own home. 

Kara (21:53): That's interesting from other countries, you see, you've got my attention. That would be different. But most of these, I mean, how many gin and tonics do we really need in a can? Do we really, um, I mean, I've had exactly one from a bar that I really loved, and that was the one from Clover Club, the Social Hour. That was a dynamite gin and tonic. But do I need another gin and tonic and a can from a bar? That's not what I'm going to bars for. Sorry, I'm just getting a little impassioned here, but I have an opinion.

Michael (22:28): Kara, beyond cocktails to-go, and bottled cocktails, what other innovations do you think are taking hospitality forward?

Kara (22:33): One of the innovations I've seen these days is the cocktail experience. I'm seeing more bars and restaurants offering what we used to think of as kind of the omakase, uh, the cocktail omakase, now that there are restrictions, at least here in New York, that food must be part of the drinking experience. 

I'm finding that more bars and restaurants are incorporating that into a single price point, like a price fix kind of situation. And it's actually not a bad idea. Um, when it first came out, I was actually very resistant to it. I was thinking, well, I think of cocktails as being an affordable luxury, and I want to go back to the days when I can just buy a single drink and, you know, that's my expense for the moment. Um, and this does drive the overall price point higher, but I think it's with a purpose and I think it's that there's some value there. And it wouldn't surprise me if this survived beyond just the COVID bubble. 

Hanna (23:39): So Kara, its been so much fun. Um, always, always nice to chat with you. 

Kara (23:40): Likewise. 

Michael (23:45): All right, well, thanks so much for being on the show. 

Kara (23:48) Thank you!