Episode #15 Aaron Goldfarb, Esquire, The New York Times, PUNCH, VinePair, Whisky Advocate

Hanna (01:19)
Hi Aaron. 

Michael (01:20)
Great to see you.

Aaron (01:21)
Good to see you guys. 

Hanna (01:22)
Thanks for joining us. 

Aaron (01:23)
Thanks for having me. 

Hanna (01:25)
First of all let’s celebrate something here. You won the Best Cocktail and Spirits Writing Award from the Tales of the Cocktail Foundation. Congratulations, that’s huge.

Aaron (01:35)
Thank you. Thank you. 

Michael (1:36)
Well done. 

Aaron (1:37)
Yeah, only award I've ever won in my life so pretty happy about that.

Hanna (01:40)
Let's back up a little bit. You originally went to Syracuse University to become a filmmaker. What led you to write about spirits, cocktails and beer?

Aaron (01:52)
Well, you know, my career and the last 20 years of my life has just been trying to find literally any job that people would pay me to do. So I wanted to be a filmmaker and a screenwriter, and I went to film school and I spent, or you could say wasted, the first decade of my life writing screenplays.

And living like a popper pretty much because of course, none of them were made into movies. Um, after about the first decade of living in New York City after college, I started thinking this is ridiculous. I've written 17 screenplays. I think some of them are pretty good. I don't know. I haven't read them in a while. 

Hanna (02:35)
17. Wow.

Aaron (02:36)
Right, exactly. They'd made me almost no money. They'd turned into zero movies. And the only people on planet earth that had ever read them were people like my roommates and maybe my mom, if she felt sorry for me. So I wanted to, you know, actually have a career where people would actually read the things I was writing.

So, uh, I wrote a novel on a whim after that and it got published and did all right, made me a little money. And it was such a thrill that there was a product out there I've written that people could actually read. This was a lot better than screenplays sitting in my desk drawer. So I thought I would just kind of be a, uh, a novelist, which also is not a very lucrative career and right around that time. Um, a friend of a friend at Esquire reached out to me and asked if I'd like to start writing for them.

So I kind of started high up, I didn't really work my way up to a place like Esquire. Literally the first journalism job I ever had was at Esquire. And I wrote a story on craft beer, which I was a fan of at the time. And I guess I still am. And I was, I was very fortunate to, to move to New York City. Right as a lot of cool things were happening. Uh, you know, I moved to New York in 2001. You know, the cocktail revolution is starting. I couldn't really afford $15 drinks, but luckily I had friends that bequeathed them on me.

Um, craft beer was booming or it was about to boom. Bourbon was again about to be hot. So I lived and drank my way through all these trends and all these new booms that were happening. And I just acquired the knowledge cause I enjoyed drinking whiskey, enjoyed drinking, craft cocktails, and whatnot. So by the time at the end of the arts in the early 2010s, when I was getting hired to do journalism, the thing I naturally seemed to know quite a bit about was my hobby. Uh, which was drinking.

And, unlike a lot of other journalistic pursuits, whether that'd be politics or whatnot, um, you know, when you're a drinks writer, it's a lot, it's a lot of fun. You get sent drinks, you get to go out to lovely events with you guys and stuff like that. Less people I imagine yell at you and offer death threats than political journalists get. Although some do come to drinks writers, but you know, so I kind of accidentally fell backwards into this career. And I keep telling myself, I'll get back to film films or novels or whatnot, but, you know, I'm enjoying it and I'm stuck in it for better or worse. 

Michael (05:11)
Good place to be stuck. 

Aaron (05:12)
Yeah, absolutely.

Hanna (05:13)
Exactly. Love the story how your hobby became your profession. Awesome. Speaking of Esquire, so you freelance for a lot of places like Punch, VinePair, Food and Wine, and many others. So can you tell our listeners who are their audiences and what type of topics do you specifically cover for each publications? 

Aaron (05:35)
Well, you know, each publication and I try to write for a lot of them, because if you think of an idea, it might be an idea that doesn't work for Esquire or The New York Times, but might work for Punch, or if it doesn't work for Punch might work for VinePair, if it doesn't work for VinePair...So I hate to think of an idea and then have nowhere to put it. Luckily I've built up the relationships and the places where I can kind of move down the chain. Oh, you didn't want it when maybe this, this person does.

You know, after all this time, it's kind of, I just have kind of a natural instinct. Oh, that's a VinePair story. Oh, that's a Punch story and I'm not sure I can necessarily centrally elucidate what that it means. You know, something more mainstream might work at Esquire than The New York Times of course. I just wrote a story on dusty hunting, which is searching for vintage spirits, for The New York Times.

And that story wouldn't have probably worked at a geekier place because all the readers already know about it whereas New York Times readers are not on the cutting edge when it comes to spirits. So you can write kind of a more mainstream story, a more mainstream wrap-up of what's been happening over the last 5 to 10 years, um, that you, you wouldn't, you know, sell to Whiskey Advocate or Bourbon Plus or something.

So, you know, you build a knack for, what do these places want by reading what they, what they publish by kind of figuring out what people are retweeting their articles and talking on Facebook about them. Um, it's, as I said, it's kind of a natural instinct. I've built over all these years and I'm not always right. I get plenty of my pitches turned down to all these places. So, you know, I always tell younger journalists, you know, keep honing in and figuring out what each place wants and come up with a lot of damn ideas cause you're gonna need them. 

Hanna (07:22)
Exactly. Exactly. So, um, do you have anything in the pipeline that our listeners can pitch you about?

Aaron (07:28)
Well I love pitches and you know, both a good and bad thing about getting a little more successful in this field is now more people reach out and they have ideas. And a lot of the ideas are not very good quite frankly.

They say you should write about this. And I think, well, what's the, what's the idea. That's not really an idea. That kind of sounds like you just want me to write about you or your brand, but, you know, occasionally they come to me. That story in The New York Times was a story that really did fall in my lap.

A guy came to me and he said, I found Cecil B. DeMille’s whiskey collection. And I asked another friend, who's the writer who would be good at covering this and the guy recommended me. So, you know, that was very fateful. And I guess just my years of work had led to that all coming together and kind of being gifted a great, great story like that. So, you know, I always like to hear from, from people, what they think are good ideas and I'll make the judgment whether they are or not. I mean, even the ideas I have, I sometimes I think they're good and they lead nowhere. So, you know, you never really know. 

Michael (08:40) We were amazed by that story. I mean, finding the Cecil B. DeMille’s booze collection, it's like unearthing Tutankhamun's tomb. You know, it's like an archeological discovery for booze lovers.

Aaron (08:52)
That's exactly what I thought of it. And when the guy told me about it, I said, yeah, I know that's a home run. I'm going to sell that story the second I send an email to whoever I'm going to send an email to. 

Michael (09:02)
So my question to you is have you become a dusty hunter yourself? 

Aaron (09:06)
Well, you know, the funny thing is, and I do have a few dusty bottles on my shelves, is I was aware of dusty hunting, you know, since the early 2010s. And even then I said to myself, ah, the whole game's probably over by now. It's not worth my time. And it wasn't. If I, if I put my head down and committed to finding vintage bottles back then I would have done incredibly well. Um, but I didn't. So other people have swooped into to get them all. But, you know, I didn't, I don't know if I want to spend my life, 12 hours of Saturday driving to dusty liquor stores just to find old Wild Turkey, but God bless the people that do.

Michael (09:48)
And putting life and limb at risks sometimes.

Aaron (09:50)
Yes, exactly, exactly. Right. 

Michael (09:52)
So what would you say it takes to really get a story in The Times versus some of the other outlets that you pitch?

Aaron (09:58)
For a drink story, you need to have something that's a little, I would say, well, okay, let me back up here. First of all, Robert Simonson has the cocktail stories on lockdown so I'm not sure why you would ever try to outpitch him. He knows what is trendy, both in New York and the world. And he knows the history of it too. So I would never even, almost waste my time. You know, sometimes people come to me and they say, here's what we got, this new cocktail trend.

Why don't you pitch it to The New York Times? And I just say, here's Robert's email address. Why don't you go to him? Uh, sounds like a good story and he would put you in a lot better place, uh, than me. Um, for other booze stories I think they need to be a little more slice of life, you know, cause a lot of people reading them might not even drink whiskey. I did something I rarely do and I read the comments on The New York Times article and a lot of people said, you know, I don't drink, I don't know anything about whiskey, but this was such a compelling story, I still read the whole thing.

So I think for a place like The New York Times, or even Esquire, you need a story that non-connoisseurs, that non. Yeah, maybe even non-drinkers are going to enjoy, um, you know, think about how many times you've read a story in The New York Times or The New Yorker or something about, uh, a hiker or a parachute or someone who does something you would never do in your entire life. But you've been compelled because it's an interesting story.

And, um, and a compelling story. So I think for the bigger publications, you need a story that stands alone without the reader having any prior knowledge of any of this. 

Michael (11:30)
Prior to the pandemic, you did a story on Eater on how some bars and restaurants are foregoing public relations and we thought that was fascinating. And quite frankly, one of the motivations of this podcast was to give bars and restaurants who don't have PR or maybe have a great story to tell, but don't know how, give them, you know, more access to reporters and editors like yourself. So from your point of view, what can individual restaurants and bars do to be included in your story?

Hanna (12:05) Or to get your attention.

Michael (12:06) Get your attention, assuming, you know, they don't have a PR firm representing them.

Aaron (12:09)
Yeah. I mean, it's really tough, especially in a city like New York. I mean, let's ignore the pandemic for now and you know, how many, if that's possible, how many restaurants and bars and you know, people making cocktails are there and everyone's trying to get a slice of the press pie. Um, for me, I like to know that I'm the only person who knows about something.

So, you know, if you know, something cool comes out and they've sent a blast to 200 places. Well, you know, I don't want to be the 20th person to write about the cool thing. Um, I'm not saying an exclusive necessary, but I think, you know, breaking down, like here's the kind of stories Aaron likes. Why don't I pitch him either this portion of our business and say, this is a cool thing we do, or, you know, figure out something that will really help him.

No writer’s ever said, ah, man, I'm just getting too many great ideas sent to me that are laid on a silver platter for me to itch to, to my editors. I mean, it’s certainly tougher for bars and restaurants that don't have PR, but with Instagram and whatnot, it's very easy to reach people like me and say, you know, here’s, here's something cool we're doing.

And it doesn't even have to be something formal. It can just be a picture, here's a cool cocktail we're making, here's a weird thing we're doing. The guy who pitched me on the DeMille thing. He just sent me, he didn't have a publicist. He's just a random dude. He sent me a picture. He said, I found the DeMille collection, if you're interested, let's talk on the phone. 

Michael (13:47) Short, short, and sweet. 

Hanna (13:48) Sounds like very easy. So you're not just trying to DM-ing you on Instagram. If you can tell us what are the top three do's and don'ts pitching you. 

Aaron (14:00)
I don't. I just don't like to be harassed, to get like, an email and I don't respond to that in an hour and I get a DM and I don't respond to that. Now I'm on Facebook. I've been cold called and texted. And you got to ask yourself like, am I getting too personal? You know, is this, even if I can find this information, isn't this is this.

A way I should be reaching out or should I just stick with email? You know, DM on Instagram is necessary and I have to do it sometimes myself. I sometimes have to reach out to people on Facebook because that's the only way I can figure it out for a story. And that's fine. But pick, pick your lane for your one media and way you're going to reach the person and just don't harass, you know, follow-ups are fine.

We don't need like 40 follow-ups. You know, I can't even remember the brand, I'm pretty sure it was a vermouth though, it became like a running joke that they were up to like 11 follow-ups. And I was like, is this person just seeing how many follow-ups they can get before I'm like, enough? And I never,

I never said that because I wanted to see like, will this just go on for the rest of time. And I think it eventually petered out, she must've got fired or moved on to another place or they lost the account or whatnot. But yeah, you know, I might miss a good email once or twice. After three it's probably because I get a hundred plus emails a day and I just don't have time to respond to them all. And I used to have time to respond to them all and it feels impolite to not, but at a certain point, I wouldn't be writing stories. I'd just be saying no thanks. That's not for me all day on email and it is how it is.

Michael (15:39)
Not a good use of your time. 

Hanna (15:40)
Totally. 

Aaron (15:41)
Right. 

Hanna (15:42)
How about dos? What can they do? 

Aaron (15:45)
Well, I'm sure other writers have said this to you. I think Mr. Japhe did as well, but personalizing the pitch, reading my last 10 stories, you know, reading my last 20 stories.

Sometimes people will say, I have an idea for you. I think it's perfect for Punch and I say, when have you ever seen a story like that on Punch? That's not perfect at all. Like, I don't know if they can't assess what a perfect story is, which might be true. It's not easy. Or if they're just trying to personalize it by not, I'll just lie and say, I read his last 10 stories and, and here's what I'm going to do. So, you know, personalizing it, you know, as I said, laying something on a silver platter, here's, here's something we got. I think it'd be a good story for VinePair. And what do you think? So I'm going to say, well, that is good. You're right. Let me see what I can do with it.

Hanna (16:41)
Yeah. I think that doing homework is one of the most important things for anyone, anyone on the phone, anyone who wants to pitch you, or any media.

Aaron (16:46)
Yeah. I mean, I would say, you know, I know it's not an easy job, but instead of focusing on all 1000 booze writers in New York focus intensely on five, 10, 20, and, you know, make those, your go tos and, you know, figure out what can, what can get done with them.

Hanna (17:06)
That's great tips. 

Michael (17:07)
And I think, you know, the human connection is really so important part of this. I mean, journalists are not simply, you know, a name on a page, but they are personalities. They are people who have preferences who have track records and, uh, you know, that has to be respected and embraced.

Speaking about personalities, you, you did a great piece for InsideHook on the famed newspaper reporter, Jimmy Breslin, staring in a beer ad, which was a great story. So how did that story come about and how do you choose the specific personalities to celebrate which, which you do very well? 

Aaron (17:43)
Well, um, thank you. You might be the only person on planet earth that seems to have read that story. Um, you know, I think that story is going to be a bit of a hit. Maybe I, you know, kinda delved too far back in the past. I've always been a fan of, uh, old newspaperman and especially Jimmy Breslin. I really enjoyed, uh, the documentary on him and Pete Hamill that was on HBO called Deadline Artists. 

Michael (18:07)
I mean, they were a phenomenon. They were legends. 

Aaron (18:09)
Yeah. And that's kind of, you know, that career doesn't really exist anymore where you shoot out of bed at 11:00 PM to go get uptown, to see what happened at The Dakota and two hours later your story on John Lennon dying’s hit the presses, that just doesn't exist. So, you know, I kinda wish I, you know, could go back in time and live that life myself as a journalist.

But, uh, so I've always been a fan of Breslin and I've always kept it in the back of my head. Wow. How the hell did a newspaper guy get a mainstream beer commercial. That's just insane. You know, he wasn't good looking. He was very crass and slovenly. So luckily my, my editor at InsideHook, Jason Diamond is a bit of an old soul like me and we, I don't even know if it's a series yet, but previous to this, he pitched me on an idea for tracking down why Miles Davis had had starred in a Japanese commercial, uh, you know, 20 or 30 years ago. And I got the scoop on that.

I said, I like this. Why don't we continue it? I've always been interested in this Jimmy Breslin thing and he said, go for it. Um, and I thought it was really a fascinating look at, you know, what newspaper men were doing in the sixties and seventies, how he ascended to fame, how beer advertising was changing through the sixties, seventies, and eighties, you know, by the eighties, it was all Spuds MacKenzie and the Swedish bikini team. And eventually by the nineties, the Wassup guys and whatnot.

You know, you, you, weren't going to see a guy like Jimmy Breslin or, or me for that matter in a Superbowl ad for Budweiser. So, you know, I thought it was a fun thing to do, and apparently you're the only person on planet earth that read it well done. 

Michael (19:52)
Well done. Well done. 

Aaron (19:54)
Thank you. Thank you. 

Michael (19:56)
Well, let's, let's circle back to 2017. You did a big story on infinity bottles. Uh, you were one of the first people to write about them, and we noticed that recently you wrote about infinity cocktails in Punch. 

Aaron (20:09)
Yes. 

Michael (20:10) As kind of like the next iteration of this, a cumulative trend, as it works. So how do you find these really geeky things and make them interesting to a more mainstream audience? 

Aaron (20:22)
Yeah. Well, I don't know if Punch is mainstream, obviously, but even the geekiest thing, you do have to explain to someone who's not spending all day on Reddit or Facebook. Like I do reading this stuff, you know, it's tough. And I probably deliver stories that are a little too geeky at times, but my editors kind of have to translate to a layman essentially. I find these stories by spending way too much time on the internet. Uh, which thankfully I like to do. It was very, it was a lot easier in 2017 because a lot of writers were not spending all their time on private groups on Facebook or in weird Reddit subreddits. Um, you know, this year I've been spending a lot of time on Instagram and TikTok, which has not been fun for a man of my age. 

Hanna (21:16)
But it's fun though. It's so entertaining. 

Aaron (21:18)
It is very addictive. That's true. 

Michael (21:21)
So are you planning your next lip-syncing video?

Aaron (21:24)
Well, I wrote a story for VinePair on how flair bartending has migrated to TikTok so I spent a lot of time watching flare on, um, on TikTok and it was actually very fun and impressive and perfect for that platform. But yet you kind of just have to go where the geeky people are talking about whatever they're interested in. My friends that write in politics have to spend, you know, time on these terrible, you know, 4chan and 8chan and you know, QANON message boards.

Luckily, I don't have to do that. I just have to read what people are drinking and what kind of cocktails they're making and videos. Um, they're making, you know, it's a lot of, it's really just a time commitment spending a ton of time. These stories are out there for anyone, and I'm always scared someone's going to find a cool story for me.

And that's what keeps me wasting my days online, reading lots of stuff that will never be stories. And a lot of times you just. Spend a lot of time on one of these platforms. And then you start noticing, hey, why are people talking about this one thing all the time? Or what's this inside joke I don't get because I'm 41 years old and all these young guys are joking about it.

And luckily I have lots of sources I can say, you know, essentially, why is everyone saying this? Or what does that mean? Or what's this abbreviation everyone's using? Or what's the joke and kind of have someone who is even geekier than me translate it to me and then I can bring it to the mainstream and kind of steal the story from them. 

Michael (22:57)
So, so really you, you go down rabbit holes, so we don't have to. 

Aaron (23:00)
Exactly. Exactly. 

Hanna (23:02)
So let's move on to writing a book. So you've written many books and we are very happy to interview you for our Ask the Author series and, and thank you for that. So, um, with a holiday coming up. So we want to know why people should buy your book, Gather Around Cocktails. 

Aaron (23:23)
Well I feel like I do have one of the worst name books during a pandemic. 

Hanna (23:29)
Oh my God I didn’t even think about that. 

Aaron (23:31)
It's called Gather Around Cocktails. It's about gathering with your friends and drinking big punchbowl's worth of cocktails. Uh, sales have not been very strong during the pandemic. I'm not going to lie. With the holiday season coming up, there are a lot of great cocktails though. And if you don't have a lot of work, maybe you can polish off a punchbowl with your immediate family that's in your pod. Uh the goal with the book was to think of official cocktails for every holiday or event throughout the year.

It's really kind of odd how only say Christmas with its eggnog or maybe The Kentucky Derby with the mint Julep has an official cocktail. What's the official cocktail of Halloween? What's the official cocktail of Thanksgiving? What's the official cocktail of Hanukkah? Um, so I kind of tried to name one or at least provide one for each of those holidays.

There's a cranberry punch for Thanksgiving, which is a bit obvious, uh. For Hanukkah, there's a Hanukkah highball. Most of the cocktails are from professional bartenders. Although, I had to come up with a few myself and then for the Christmas season, there's loads of wonderful eggnog and eggnog adjacent type cocktails and mold cocktails, and mold adjacent cocktails. So, a lot of fun things you can do and play around with when you're stuck at home all winter because of the pandemic. 

Michael (25:00)
So what are some of your secrets for making world-class eggnog? 

Aaron (25:05)
So I don't have any crazy, like secret sauce for eggnog. My biggest belief in making a good eggnog is time. Um, even if it's just overnight, you make it before the party or before you want to drink it and just give it a day to combine and meld together. The way I make eggnog, it tastes perfectly good and fine immediately.

It's a little too fluffy. It's a little too boozy, but something magical happens as it starts melding together, either in the fridge or you can even put it in your cupboard because it's high enough proof that it will not go bad. And no one believes that, but my cabinet right now has four-year-old eggnog that is as beautiful and milky as it was the day it was made.

Weird things start happening when it ages and I don't think four years is a great age for eggnog by any means, this is more an experiment, but two weeks is incredible. You know, it's, it's getting to be Thanksgiving, if I was having a Christmas party by December 15th, which I won't be having this year, of course, I would consider making an eggnog right about now and aging it 'cause by, December 15th, it's going to be so silky. It's going to be just packed with flavor. It's going to be delicious. And that's, that's my, my secret sauce

Michael (26:21)
You're making us thirsty. 

Hanna (26:23)
So are you working on any new book, because Robin Simonson revealed his new book on our podcast. So, any scoop that we can get?

Aaron (26:31)
Well, I missed Robert's podcast. Was it his agave book? 

Michael (26:37)
Exactly. He broke the news with us.

Aaron (26:39)
Okay, I'll break the news with you then I guess. I do have a new one that writing hasn't begun yet, but a deal has been signed. I am teaming up with Stephen Grasse, the owner and creator of Quaker City Mercantile in Philadelphia. He's the genius behind Hendricks Gin and Sailor Jerry Rum. And Tamworth Distilling and Art in the Age, everything he touches turns to gold.

So this is going to be a book on essentially how he comes up with all his crazy booze brands and gets them to market. It's not due on shelves until 2022 so we're going to have a long way. 

Hanna (27:16)
I'm going to be patient.

Michael (27:17)
We'll save a spot on our shelf for sure.

Aaron (27:20)
We're ready. I'm excited to get started on it. 

Michel (27:22)
And do you, do you have a name for it? 

Aaron (27:23)
Uh, it was sold under the name, Cultivating Creativity, but that's going to change to what? I do not know. 

Hanna (27:32)
Okay. All right. Thanks for breaking the news with us. 

Michael (27:34)
It’s appreciated. And now for the listener question segment of our podcast. Today's question comes from Ian McPherson owner of the acclaimed, Pander and Sons, and several other bars in Edinburgh.

Hanna (27:49)
Who's a genius and is wonderful. 

Aaron (27:50)
I know I’ve interviewed him.

Michael (27:51)
Ian is wonderful and he's curious to know what will it take to place scotch whiskey at the forefront of the cocktail repertoire? 

Aaron (27:59)
That's an interesting question. I'm sure the answer differs in Scotland um, compared to here, I'm guessing scotch is a little more sacrosanct over where he works. Uh, although he's a goofy guy, who's willing to put booze into popsicles and, and whatnot. Um, boy, it's, it's going to be challenging over here.

Um, but you know, Americans are always looking for the new hot spirit to make cocktails with. And if the cocktail revolution kind of started with bourbon and rye and eventually went to mezcal and agave drinks, and gin has always been hot here and amaro is probably the hottest thing to work with now. I think it's time could come. I don't know if it will.

Um, when we speak of scotch, of course, unlike a lot of those other things, you know, what do we exactly mean? You know, Laphroaig tastes a lot different from Macallan. So you, you can't just make a cocktail and say two ounces of scotch. Well, two ounces of what scotch, you know? Um, but then again, you know, one of the first hot modern cocktails was the Penicillin, which is a scotch cocktail and it remains one of the hottest cocktails of the last 20 years, certainly, and its a creation. So I think Americans do love smoke.

We love barbecue. I think, you know, a line of, kind of aila cocktails, smoky cocktails. I could see it happening. Mezcal of course got hot because of the smoke too I think. I don't know if it will ever be the end cocktail. I don't know if you'll ever go to a bar in New York City and there's, you know, seven scotch cocktails on the menu, but could happen. 

Hanna (29:40) Maybe Ian, maybe he’ll be the one who might change that.

Michael (29:43)
He might break the code. 

Aaron (29:44)
Well, Ian is a genius. You are right. And, uh, he's so far ahead of the game I can't even predict what he's going to do. I just hope, I just hope he messages me and says, here's something crazy I'm doing. Let's write a story on it. 

Hanna (29:47)
Exactly. I mean, he’s like an innovator. 

Aron (30:02)
Yeah. I'd like to write a book with him. I would. 

Hanna (30:04)
Well I think you should talk about that. All right. So speaking of innovators and innovations, we call our podcast Hospitality Forward because we truly believe that our industry will come back even stronger when time comes. So in your opinion, uh, Aaron, so what innovation are you seeing that you think bars should adapt to move our hospitality forward?

Aaron (30:34)
Yeah. I mean, obviously, the pandemic has been awful, but during terrible times, innovation naturally happens. And I obviously haven't been to any other cities and America or the world during the pandemic, but New Yorkers are the quickest to innovate of anyone, you know, quickly coming up with outdoor dining and turning, you know, you're seeing like a Amor y Amargo turn into both grocery for cocktails and a high-end tasting menu bar, which I think is wonderful.

You're seeing uh, batched cocktails and, and canned cocktails from the bars. I don't know if this will carry over. I think it's going to exist for a long time. People are loving our outdoor dining and drinking in New York. It's wonderful and beautiful to walk down the street. And instead of seeing, you know, street cleaners and dirty cars, you're seeing beautiful, you know, flower displays and, and just people having a great time outside. And hopefully it doesn't get too cold, but I think New Yorkers will figure out a way that we'll be drinking outside in December or January, if possible cause we're going to have to. I don't know. I love how easy it is to get alcohol these days.

That makes me sound like an alcoholic, but I love, you know, my favorite coffee shop here in Brooklyn by my house is called Krupa. And I go in to get my coffee, and the cooler beside where you get your coffee doesn't just have orange juice and seltzer. It also has bottled cocktails they've made that look delicious. So it's hard not to grab one of those to go as well. So I hope the ease of getting drinks to customers is not something that's going to end with the pandemic.

Uh, during the summer, I loved walking around on a hot day and grabbing a frozen cocktail out the window at a bar and walking on to the next place, you could almost do walking bar crawls without ever going inside. So that was a real blast. Um, and I hope all of these will continue. Bars should be allowed to make money any way they legally can.

Hanna (33:23)
Great. Thanks so much, Aaron. And again, we'll see you very soon and share a cocktail or two in person. 

Aaron (33:29)
I would love to. Looking forward to it, looking forward to it. 

Hanna (33:47)
That was quite a chat. Now, you know what Aaron covers, please feel free to pitch him with your interesting stories. Just remember not to follow up 11 times.