Episode #19 Devorah Lev-Tov, New York Times, Thrillist, Condé Nast Traveler, Eater

Michael (01:19) 
Hi, Devorah. Welcome to the show. 

Hanna (01:21) 
Great to see you. 

Devorah (01:22) 
Hi, thank you for having me .

Michael (01:24) 
Our pleasure. So let's get started. You've been freelance writing for more than 15 years. To start, can you tell our listeners what specific topics you normally cover? 

Devorah (01:33) 
Um, so I, through those 15 years, have covered quite a few things, but these days I'm focusing on mostly food, drink and travel, a few other lifestyle topics thrown in sometimes. 

Hanna (01:52) 
So will you be adding any additional topics to your coverage in addition to travel, drinks, and chefs and all.

Devorah (01:59) 
That is a really good question. I, if you would have asked me last year, I would have said no, you know, those are my beats and I love them. But we all have to be more open so I have actually expanded a little bit. I started writing for a website that does, um, business coverage, business stories, and their focus is about how we're all working at home now. And what are the best practices for that. So I would've never thought that I would write something like that. Um, I also, I have always dabbled a little bit in the parenting and family space, so I'm doing a little bit more of that these days.

Michael (02:45) 
Let's drill down more into the actual publications that you write for and there are many, from The New York Times, Thrillist, Conde Nast Traveler, Travel + Leisure, and quite a few more than that. So could you explain to our listeners how you tailor each of your stories for each of the outlets. So for example, how's a story that you write from The New York Times different from a story you would write for say Thrillist?

Devorah (03:11) 
It can be a balancing act at times, for sure. And sometimes a story that I think is perfect for a specific outlet doesn't take it and it ends up going to a different one. So this is not set in stone in any way, but of course, once I start writing, it's always tailoring to that publication's audience and voice. So of course the audience for a Thrillist versus The New York Times is fairly different. Obviously there's some crossover, but Thrillist has, you know, a very specific voice. It's young. It's fun.

It's like talking to your best friend, the insider information that, you know, all the hip people are doing these days, which I should say is I'm not that hip, but somehow I meet the people. Whereas The New York Times obviously is more serious, a bit more staid, not to say that there's no place for a little bit of humor in The New York Times, but it's definitely a different audience and a different voice. So I think when I receive pitches for stories from publicists, sometimes they ask me about a specific publication, which is fine.

And sometimes it's a great idea, but I would say most of the time they might suggest a publication and I will come back with, well, I'm not sure it's right for The New York Times, which of course everyone wants to get in The New York Times so I definitely don't blame anyone for requesting that, but obviously that's quite hard to do and they're very picky. So a lot of times I'll get requests for The New York Times and I might come back and say, I'm happy to try it, but I think it might actually be a better fit for X publication.

Are you willing to let me try that? Um, and you know, it's always a conversation and figuring out what works best. And of course, if I pitch it somewhere and they, and the editor doesn't take it, you know, then I'm free to pitch it somewhere else. And a lot of times I will pitch the same story to 10 different publications before it gets picked up and I just keep refining the pitch for each of those publications. 

Hanna (05:12) 
Often, you know, what we really like about your stories is that they’re in-depth feature stories. Some of the articles that we enjoyed recently was the story about black owned businesses that make travel gifts, and then also tips on how to make a latkes for Hanukkah. Those were so good. And actually Michael will be passing some recipes tonight. 

Michael (05:34) 
I have my own secrets that I could share with you.

Hanna (05:38) 
When it comes latkes, Michael knows the best. 

Michael (05:39) 
I am the latkes-miester. 

Devorah (05:41) 
I should have interviewed you. I had no idea. 

Hanna (05:45) 
I know next year, next Hanukkah. Definitely. You know, all of the stories are so very different and unique, but, um, it's very insightful so what's the creative process?

Michael (05:56) 
And what's your approach to finding a good story? Where do you get your inspiration? 

Devorah (06:00) 
Well, I will say, and I'm not just saying this to you, but I do get a lot of my inspiration from publicists. From pitches that I get into my inbox that are things that especially now, because I'm not going out as much and not traveling as much that I'm, you know, relying on pitches more and more I would say for my ideas these days. And I also get a ton that are not fits.

So it's a lot of sifting through, and it's hard to say with, you know, when I get a pitch, it's really a gut feeling, which I know is not helpful, but it really is on a lot of levels. It's just, it's my personal interests, which sometimes don't align with my editors and I can't place the story, even though it's a story that I love or, you know, a topic that I love and I really do want to cover, and sometimes I just can't place it, but for me, it's a mixture of something that is new and innovative and different and the personality behind it has an interesting backstory and interesting history. 

I'm trying to cover more diverse people, as well. So people from diverse backgrounds are getting a little more attention from me these days, as well. And I think it's just that magic sauce combination of just grabbing, you know, grabbing my attention. I will say, for things that come into my inbox, having a good subject line is really key, which I know is hard because I also have to have good subject lines when I'm pitching to my editors to get through to their inboxes.

So I know how hard it is, but really when I see a good subject line it's going to make me click on it because I get so many generic press releases that aren't personal to me. And I just honestly don't have time to read them. So it should have a good subject line and a personalized pitch to me. And like, you were just rattling off all these stories of mine that you love for other people pitching me. It's so important to read my work and you'll get a really good idea of the kind of things that I do enjoy writing about and what might grab my attention, which is so important when you're pitching someone. 

Pitching aside, I get my inspiration from just trying to go out and see the world, which is quite hard now, but at least right now, see my neighborhood, see New York and sometimes it's also pop culture, although not as much for me, because I'm not up on pop culture as much as some other people are, but sometimes things come through and I'll, you know, I'll see something and I'll think, oh, I just saw this cocktail, and now it's on this TV show. That's interesting. You know, that kind of thing can sometimes be a good, a good hook. And of course the news hook is so important a lot of times.

Hanna (05:87) 
As you know, our listeners are all hospitality and travel professionals like chefs, bartenders, and travel advisors and hotel owners, restaurant and bar owners, and more, and they all have so much expertise and stories to share. And I know you have your own, you know, inner circle out of people that you interview, but for those who are not in your inner circle, but who have an amazing story to share, how they can be a part of your upcoming stories? 

Devorah (09:29) 
So I love hearing from new people. You're right. I do have my kind of inner circle, which you're a part of which I go to on a regular basis when I get a story that, you know, I think they might have a client or they might know someone or maybe it's them that they're just perfect for. And of course, it's easy to reach out to that same group of people all the time. And usually there's a reason that they're in my inner circle. It's because they're hard workers.

They know what they're doing. They respond. They're helpful. All of those things. But I love hearing from new people because of course we all want to expand and meet new people and help. And help new people and help them by giving them a platform. That's really what I want to do. So the best way to get in touch with, to reach out to me is, like I said before, is to read my work and see if you think you or your client might be a good fit for the kind of stories that I do and the publications that I write for.

And honestly, just email me, you can Google me and find my email in two seconds. It's on my website. Um, you know, just email me, reach out. I like actually getting introductory emails sometimes versus like a full pitch. A lot of times it's helpful when people just kind of reach out and say, “Oh, hi, I read your story. I really enjoyed it. This is what I do. This is why I think maybe we can work together.” Like it can be very casual. It does not have to be this formal pitch, kind of thing.

And I think often at times the casual works better, you know, let's be friends, let's get to know each other and see what happens. And I think also, you know, I mentioned to you before we started recording that I've done a few panels recently, um, talking with some publicists and other journalists and just from those, I got a lot of new contacts, which was awesome. And it's kind of like, okay, now we've gotten to know each other a little bit. So let's just chat. Let's see how we can work together. So I think it's just important to get to know me and my work as best you can and then reach out and just be friendly. And tell me about yourself. 

Hanna (11:39) 
Great tips, because you know, a lot of people don't know how to get to you and some other people, it's a little, you know, intimidating.

Michael (11:50)
Or shy.

Devorah (12:51) 
That makes sense. 

Hanna (11:52) 
So your tips on, you know, just be casual, just send an email and just be very simple and just saying, let's get to know each other.

Michael (12:01) 
Be human. 

Devorah (12:01) 
Yes! 

Hanna (12:02) 
I think that's wonderful because they don't have to have a perfect pitch ready to go for you, but just, “Hey, I'm so-and-so and so on. I'd love to get to know you.” I think that anybody can do that so I think that's a great tip. So thank you so much for that. 

Devorah (12:15) 
Also, maybe you don't even have a story idea yet. You don't even have a real pitch, but you should still reach out. Because the way that I work a lot of times is somebody tells me something or I meet someone and then three months later, I have a story or I get this idea and I remember, oh, you also did this crazy thing that you've told me about, and now it totally works for this story. So I think it's always good to just get on my radar because I save all of my emails.

You would be probably horrified to see my emails, I have thousands and thousands of them. And I search through them when I'm doing a story to see, you know, what kind of emails I've gotten in the past that might, that might work all of a sudden for this. And it’s happened to me like two years later, honestly, which obviously you probably don't wait that long, but you never know when, when the story is going to come up and so it's really helpful to get in touch. And I will say also recently I've been getting a lot of messages on Instagram and LinkedIn and that kind of thing. And that's also a fine way to reach out.

But for me personally, I prefer email because of what I just said, which is that I can search through it and find it later whereas if you messaged me on social media, I'm going to forget about it. So usually when people message me, I say, “Great. Can you email me?” And I give them my email address.

Hanna (13:34) 
So in terms of the social media, we know you love it and we do too. So how are you using social media for your work? And I know you showcased a mix of your personal and also work. So how do you use it? 

Devorah (13:50) 
So I'll start by saying that Instagram is my preferred media and I post the most on there. I have often found posts on Instagram that give me story ideas. I bookmark them. I start following that account, I would say mostly on Instagram rather than any other media. 

Hanna (14:11) 
Can you share any tips for how our listeners can use social media to get your attention? For example, those professional photo versus not professional photo matters or long captions versus short captions. What attracts you?

Devorah (14:28) 
Um, I think it's just a gut feeling again. I wouldn't say, I don't think it matters for me if it's professional versus casual photo, long caption short caption. It depends on my mood and what I'm doing. If I'm literally just scrolling for ideas or I get into sort of this hole, sometimes where I see, you know, let's say someone that I follow posts something. I'll tell you a real example of how this happened for an article that I ended up writing for Eater about the Oishii strawberries. So, these are these special strawberries that are grown in this warehouse year-round in New Jersey. They market them as being amazing and all the fancy chefs use them and they are really, really good. But so the way that that story came about was, um, a publicist that I follow posted something about them.

They were not her client. She is Japanese and she is just always up on hip Asian stuff. So she posts cool stuff all the time, not from her clients. And she posted something about this, you know, strawberry. And I was like, what is this? This looks like a beautiful strawberry. What makes it special? So I clicked on Oishii’s account, started scrolling through reading their spiel, about how they have this special warehouse and special process. And as someone who loves strawberries and is acutely aware of their seasonality and how brief it is and how so many strawberries that you buy in the supermarket are not good and tastes like nothing.

I was very intrigued. So I just kind of started scrolling around and then they had partnered with some chefs. So then I was looking at the chefs that use them and I was very impressed by that. Those people you know, that I know that I respected, so I just messaged them and they didn't have a publicist yet. They hadn't been written about at all. And I ended up breaking the story about them. I had to convince them that they should let me be the one to write about them. So yes. A lot of it is a gut feeling, it's sort of score scrolling along and seeing something. And then just going down this rabbit hole and yeah, I would say there's no specific way to grab my attention.

Michael (16:46) 
Let's circle back to editorial for a moment. You know, just to let you know that since launching our podcast, we found that a lot of PR professionals find our episodes very informative, which is great. But for those in the hospitality and travel industry who perhaps may not be represented by a PR agency, but still have amazing insights to share, what's the best way for them to get on your radar.

Devorah (17:10) 
It's so funny cause I was just having this conversation with my husband over lunch because I had to reach out to this restaurant in Alabama for this story. But they didn't have a publicist. And he wrote back to me, the guy, the owner, and he was like, “Is this a paid article?” Which, if you had a publicist, he would have never asked that question. It was very obvious that this is like a special, exciting opportunity and tutorial for them. You know?

So then my husband was asking me if it was better or worse if someone has a publicist and what, you know, do you get excited? He asked me, “Do I get excited when someone doesn't have a publicist because it means that they're undiscovered” and Oishii is a good example of that, which in that case, they were undiscovered and it was exciting, but of course not everyone who doesn't have a publicist is undiscovered. Um, and sometimes they may be, there are so many reasons why you wouldn’t have publicist, which is fine. And I think that there are those cases where they are undiscovered and you know, they're new and they don't know how great they are, is really exciting, but yeah, it's hard to find them. And then of course, there's people who have been around forever.

They know what a publicist does. They don't necessarily need one anymore. So I think the best way to get on my radar again is just to sort of reach out. I've gotten emails from people like that as well, just introducing themselves, you know, they're the owner or whatever it is. And, you know, they just say, “I read your work. I'd love to be featured sometime. I just wanted to reach out and introduce myself.” And that is totally fine and great. 

Hanna (18:45) 
And I think it's really, again, it’s that simple to get to know you and to connect with you. I think that's fascinating in a way, because, you know, we all feel like it has to be a perfect story, perfect pitches for very well-known writers, but then you're saying, just email me and just saying hello, and it doesn't have to have a perfect pitch. Let's get to know each other. I think that's just such a refreshing tip.

Michael (19:13) 
Well you're taking the pressure out of the interaction. 

Devorah (19:15) 
Well, it's funny because I sometimes am of course intimidated by reaching out to, you know, amazing chefs, award-winning bartenders, whatever it is. I'm intimidated too. So I think we both, you know, if everyone could just sort of shed that armor and that intimidation and we're all just people. Right?

Hanna (19:36) 
Exactly. So let's get more specific. What type of pitches wow you, or what type of story ideas do you like passing on? 

Devorah (19:48) 
So I think it's interesting that, you know, we were talking about publicist versus not publicist because I would say if somebody who's not a publicist, who's the owner or, or works, you know, at the place or whatever it is, is reaching out to me, I will not expect them to come to me with a public, a polished pitch because they're not a professional. And I think I would cut them a little bit more slack. Whereas if a publicist is coming to me with a not polished pitch, I'm going to be a little more harsh, I guess, because I think they should know better cause it's their job. Um, so that being said, you know, focusing on pitches from publicists. I would say what I mentioned before, which is the subject line. This goes for anyone. The subject line is just so important because my inbox is a nightmare.

So catching my eye with the subject line is really important and also just really personalizing the pitch to me. Show me that you are familiar with my work. I hardly ever read generic press releases. I just don't have time. That said sometimes the pitch is personalized and still, like you said, it doesn't stick. I think it's important to really lay out, why do I care about it right now? What's the angle, you know, it's fine to pitch openings because I do cover that sometimes. Um, that said it's always much better.

If you can get an angle beyond an opening. And why do I care about this opening? You know, even now during COVID. Thankfully new places, you know, dozens of places are still opening in New York all the time. So you still do need to stand out beyond just being new and I think for me, it's really sharing the backstory of the people who opened it. I would say the owners, the people that worked here, I love backstories. They have to be interesting, which doesn't always happen.

And it has to be interesting to me. And you might not necessarily know what's interesting to me. I don't even know if I know what’s interesting to me all the time, but it’s really just sharing the backstory and the uniqueness and just tailoring it to me as much as possible. And if you're asking about a specific publication, tailoring it to that publication as well, or that column that you're pitching this, this drives me crazy. I'll tell you something that drives me crazy. I'll get a very vague pitch and they'll say, let me know if you want more information. And I'm just like, now I have to spend time replying to you saying yes.

Please send me more information when you could have just sent it. I don't get that method. Maybe they think that I don't want to read as much. I don't know. Or like, I think a good solution to that is to put a shorter you know, thing in the top and then say more information below. Like, don't make me reply asking for more information because you were so vague. That's just weird to me. 

Hanna (22:51) 
Yeah. I mean, it happens to Michael as well, and it drives Michael crazy.

Devorah (22:54) 
It’s so weird right?

Michael (22:55)
Why are you creating more work for me?

Hanna (23:00) 
Yeah, exactly. 

Michael (23:01) 
So you know, diving in a little bit more into uh storytelling. As you know, there are a lot of wonderful writers in the hospitality and travel community. So what advice would you give to someone who wants to pursue a career, a successful career I would add, similar to yours? 

Devorah (23:16) 
Yeah. So, I mean, I think that's great and I'm actually lacking in that experience. And I sometimes wish that I had it. I've never worked at a bar or a restaurant in hospitality at all. And I think that's a detriment to me sometimes when I'm writing these stories, because I don't totally know what it's like. I'm relying on speaking to people in the industry. Whereas if you're in the industry, you have that experience, you have that expertise. So I think you can really market yourself as a writer who is a true expert in. Wine or hotels or whatever industry that you work in because you've had that experience. So I think that's a huge leg up and you should definitely market yourself that way when you start pitching editors. Be sure to mention that because I think that is great.

And I would say, read a lot, read the publications that you want to be in. That is so important. You really need to know those publications inside out before you pitch them so that you are tailoring properly. Do your research on the editor that you're pitching as well, as much as you can. But honestly just go for it and get ready for a lot of rejections. I still get tons of rejections all the time. It's part of the business. You have to have a thick skin, for sure. And, you know, getting that first clip is so hard, but once you have it, then it gets easier. So just be ready, be ready for the rejections. And there is that element of luck I would say for sure. And also reach out to writers that you enjoy reading and, you know, we're all busy, but I think I try. You know, if somebody would reach out to me directly asking for advice, you know, I would try to help them as much as I can. I think people helped me so I always want to try to return that, you know, that said I am really busy.

Michael (25:17) 
Keep the karma going forward. 

Devorah (25:18) 
Exactly. 

Hanna (25:19) 
So generous of you.

Michael (25:21) 
You mentioned travel and you've traveled to so many amazing places and done really incredible things around the world. So what do you miss most about travel and what do you like most about it?

Devorah (25:33) 
Oh my God. I miss everything. Like I miss waiting in line at the airport. I mean I don’t but I feel like I do. Remind me of that the next time my flight gets canceled or something. But I mean, I just, I really, I miss everything. I really miss flying. So I haven't flown at all since March. We've done a few road trips, but that's really it, aside from the actual act of getting somewhere. I really miss being exposed to different cultures, new people, new places, just seeing things that I can't see in New York. And I mean maybe I shouldn't say this, but as a mother of a five-year-old, I miss being able to escape a little bit, because I used to sometimes be able to go on trips by myself and have not been able to do that obviously at all. And I definitely miss that a little bit. I love my son. I love my husband, but I would love to go somewhere without them right now. 

Hanna (26:33) 
We know the feeling. 

Michael (26:34) 
We can relate to that. All right. And now for the listener question segment of our show, we have a question from Lindsey Johnson, co-owner of Expo, a cocktail bar in Louisville, Kentucky and founder of Portland Cocktail Week. So Lindsey would like to know what bartenders should be doing to stay relevant and visible to the media during the shutdowns. 

Devorah (26:57) 
Yeah. Oh man. I wish I had sort of the silver bullet answer for this, but I think what I would say is, especially if you're not working right now I think social media is a good way to stay relevant and to post content about what you're doing. You know, maybe you created this crazy cocktail at home that you can share that way. Um, and again, I think just reaching out directly to journalists. I still say, I mean, maybe I'm the only one that feels this way, but I don't think I have, I mean, I have a lot of writer friends, and I think they would agree with me, but you know, saying like if somebody just reaches out and is friendly and just says, hey, this is, you know, this is what I used to do. This is what I'm doing now.” And I think also for me, at least I am more interested in human interest stories.

And so I think that, and people, I think are interested in reading about how people are getting through this pandemic and, and the creativity and, and that kind of stuff. And so I think that there is a space for that. And yeah, I mean, I don't know. It's so hard. I will say actually another cool thing that I've been enjoying here in New York. And I think other places it's happening, other places too, is the pop-up and kind of trying to, if you're not working right now, trying to get a residency or a pop-up somewhere that is open is a great way to stay on people's radars. And also, even though we're all kind of zoomed out a little bit I do still think there's a place for virtual events.

I still attend them. I do. I go to some, you know, wine tastings and cocktail classes and cooking classes. I think for the people, for those of us that enjoy that stuff, that's kind of, you know, the only way to do right now, even though it's not the same, but I think if, you know, trying to still do the virtual stuff is so worthwhile.

Hanna (28:57) 
Yeah, a hundred percent. We call our podcast Hospitality Forward because we are very hopeful about the future of our industry. And, you know, we all know that, uh, it's very frustrating and is very tough time for all of us, but we know our industry will come back stronger than ever. So, um, in your opinion, what types of innovations do you think hotels and travel destinations should undertake to move our hospitality and travel industry forward? 

Devorah (29:31) 
I think right now it's so important to make people feel safe and protected because I'm not going to go to a place that I don't think is having good COVID safety practices right now. I've been in that situation. I've been in the situation where I've walked into a place where they're not wearing a mask or the people are too crowded or the tables are too close together and, and I'll just leave, you know, I think it's, it's not. I don't understand why people are doing that. But anyway, I think that for me is number one, is just making people feel safe.

And at the same time, making them feel welcome, which I think is so hard when you're wearing a mask and forced to do the social distancing. But you know, when I go to a place and they're doing all the protocols and still they're visibly excited that we're there and excited to have us and serve us and share with us what they're doing. I think that's so important. It's hard.

I mean, I don't think I could do it, which is reason one million, why I don't work in the hospitality industry, but I really respect the people that are able to do that and to still get up every day and, you know, go to their job and put themselves at risk just to be able to give the rest of us a little bit of happiness and normalcy. I mean, it's so it's so amazing and important to just kind of keep doing that, even though it's so hard. And then I think the other piece of it, which we've talked about quite a bit is just trying to innovate and be creative, which again, I can't imagine how exhausting that must be as well to just think of the next thing that's going to get you on somebody's radar.

Um, but I think those two are hand in hand because you also need to be creative in terms of thinking about safety and being welcoming at the same time and I, like I said, I've been so impressed with what people have come up with and, you know, I guess I just am begging them to keep doing it because I want like you guys to just, we gotta have to recover and we're just going to have to kind of stick it out as best we can and be as creative as we can in order to do that.

Michael (31:44)
The hospitality and travel industry is resilient and creative and we have every confidence that's going to come roaring back.

Hanna (31:50) 
We’re not going anywhere.

Devorah (31:50)
I hope so. That’s how I feel.

Hanna (32:25)
Well, thank you. And thank you so much for carving out the time to chat with us today. It's been a blast. Thank you so much. 

Devorah (32:33) 
Thank you for having me. It was great. 

Michael (32:35) 
All righty. Thanks Devorah.

Hanna (32:36) 
Thanks Devorah. See you soon.