Episode #25 - David Kaplan, Adweek

Hanna (01:46)
Hi, David! Thanks for joining us.

David (01:48)
Hi Hanna! Thanks for having me.

Michael (01:50)
Great to see you!

David (01:51)
You too!

Michael (01:52)
So this is the first time we're interviewing a journalist from an advertising and marketing publication.

Hanna (01:57)
And we are so honored to have you.

Michael (01:59)
Yeah, we're very excited to learn what goes on behind the scenes at iconic publications like Ad Week.

Hanna (02:05)
Tell us about Adweek overall, and what sets you apart from other marketing publications?

David (02:11)
I really think the idea that Adweek as a legacy publication at this point, um, this is my second stint at Adweek. I was initially there 20 years ago when I had been transitioning from my first kind of real paying job in journalism as a writer of the exciting world of municipal bonds. And I just thought, oh, advertising, because I cover everything, wouldn't be bored. So that was the appeal there. And when I started, Adweel was kind of an upstart. It was only 20 years old at the time. And they'd been competing against the hundred year old, almost a hundred year old, Edit. And there were a few other smaller B2B publications, but Adweek really started to establish itself, then, and now it is definitely this, you know, major pillar in the advertising and marketing industry as a trade publication. And since then it's been competing against, you know, these much smaller, smart startups, such as, you know, everyone has a blog now, everyone's got a Substack now and where. 

And I think Adweek has really been able to bridge that gap of still being this, this kind of startup mentality in a way even before there were startups. And so it's been able to, it has, you know, the blogs covered, it has its own family of blogs, including AgencySpy and other blogs like that. Um, and I think that's still part of it's, you know, it’s DNA and its, and its sense of itself. And in terms of speaking very directly, very quickly, but also very much in depth and from this, this establishment perch. So it's a kind of, I think it has that perfect balance of it's as it operates and thinks as new as anybody else, but it still has that legacy, you know, brand. And that obviously that huge audience that smaller entities don't necessarily have.

Michael (04:05)
So let's focus more on your current role. So you're the Performance Marketing Editor and interim Brand Marketing Editor at Adweek. So can you explain to our listeners a little bit about what the job entails?

David (04:20)
Essentially the idea  of Adweek when I was first there again, it was, there were three sister magazines. It was Adweek, Brandweek and Mediaweek. And they've since been combined into one. So in a sense, being a Brand Editor is being this, this kind of, mini magazine within a larger magazine or a larger publication.

And the focus is what are the strategies and issues that brands are dealing with. And that's kind of the perspective there. Um, a large part of what I see as the mission is to explain the hows and whys of what brands are thinking about, what they're doing, what they're encountering in terms of communicated their message, in terms of creating brand awareness and maintaining brand affinity or building brand affinity, or ultimately the idea of brand is identity. And the notion of identity as its communicated, it used to be just through products. And now it's, you know, everyone knows everything about the inside, outside the brand.

People are fans and can express that to your social media. And so, part of that is what I'm helping to kind of navigate in that coverage, how that all fits together, where, you know, the idea of influences are such a big deal and how to, how do they kind of also shape them, their identity as brand stewards, as brand ambassadors, separately, performance marketing is a very wide range of tools and strategies related to how do advertisers, marketers, target individuals, you know, through interactivity, through social media channels, through the use of geolocation, direct mail is still is the oldest form of interactivity in a way. And how that's being updated is another area that I'm focused on. 

Hanna (6:16)
What makes a good Adweek story? And in terms of content creation, how is Adweek magazine different than adweek.com, and how do you manage content for each?

David (6:30)
I think, you know, essentially the idea is, an Adweek story is something that speaks to what do people in the business of communications, whether it's media, whether they're a brand, whether they're a platform company, whether they are the marketing person trying to figure out what is going on, what they should be thinking about or what they are trying to learn more of. It's, I think the idea for any kind of trade publication is to answer the question, how do you help someone do their job better? How do you be, how do you help them be more knowledgeable about what is going on around them?

And that affects the work that they do and that the work that they're expected to do. Um, and how do they stay ahead of both their competition and how do they respond to consumers and their client's needs? I think answering those questions across the board in a minute area when it comes, when you slice it, according to a media company or a platform company or brand or advertiser from an agency to a platform company, how do you, how do you still enter those bigger ideas of communication down to those individual verticals? And from there, between the magazine and the new website. I think the website, you know, essentially we're all in this kind of mobile first world. So in a lot of ways, the website, the mobile site has to reflect the mission of the magazine, which is that large explainer sensibility.

And this high profile looks into something you want to be able to hold in your hands and be able to refer to, not just in the minute, but something that's going to be relevant, a story that's going to be relevant, a visual that's going to be relevant, uh, you know, for the next year or to remember that a year from now or years from now. The website, it has this sense of immediacy, but also this level of quick, quick depths, people can kind of find out everything in a moment from Twitter, but the idea of individual explanations and how and why something is happening. That's where the website kind of stills in those gaps. But then, you know, it hopefully reflects this more immediate sense of what the magazine is, which is obviously a slower old media concept. 

Michael (08:56)
So, overall, what do you see as the advertising and marketing trends that are going to be taking us forward. Are you seeing any, uh, seismic shifts, especially innovations since the pandemic started?

David (09:10)
Yeah, I think across the board, it's accelerated all of the changes that were gradually gathering steam over the last few years, particularly the idea of this mobile first idea, which has become maybe kind of a cliche and something that, oh, this is the year of mobile is something we've been hearing for the last decade.

And I think figuring out what that means and how people use their phones as a way of, uh, both disseminating and accessing information and expressing, you know, ideas and identity about themselves, about the things that they're interested in, whether it's politics obviously, or what they're interested in from a, you know, just a consumer perspective. Those are all, that's all what's kind of happening much more quickly, and it's going to really cement the changes that we've seen. I don't think there's, you know, there's always this kind of, everyone's looking at their watch to see when do we go back to, you know, whatever it was before the pandemic.

And I don't think there's really any going back. It's never, we weren't going back anyway. But there is looking to you. How does the use of just simple things like even just the restaurant and bar world, this idea of QR codes was something that's been playing around forever. This is kind of a small, very simple technology, but now in the age of, you go to a restaurant or pick up something, you are looking at your menu through a QR code.

Now that's unlocking other ideas. And that seems like such a mundane technology compared to, you know, driverless cars maybe, but that is something that is going to change the way restaurants package their own information, or the way that, you know, you deal with an airline or a hotel in terms of the check-in process. Um, that's going to be a new window that all kinds of brands and marketers and businesses are going to have to figure out how to use in terms of that connection, that mobile connection and having that something be meaningful as both a utility, but also something that surprises and delights people. It's a harder thing that people have been trying to solve. And I think this has forced harder decisions and more creative thinking around, as I said, mundane things like QR codes on your phone. 

Hanna (11:32)
So speaking of restaurants and bars, what portion of Adweek's stories address the hospitality and travel industries and has coverage been increasing lately?

David (11:43)
Yeah, it's definitely increased in the sense that the question is where are we now? Where are we going? Is something that, as I said, every industry is desperately trying to figure out and discuss and see discussions of. And obviously, you know, hospitality falls under the brands umbrella, as well as things like commerce, and you know, social media. So that's all kind of wrapped up together. So restaurants and bars obviously touch on that. Um, as well as, you know, brands from beer to spirits to wine, how are they being able to reach consumers when this distance, the social distance between consumers and the restaurants and places they go there is a, you know, even if you are having generally a 25% capacity plays or just doing pickup or delivery, it changes the dynamic and it changes the way those businesses market. So that's an area that has obviously been ramped up and has received a lot more focus.

Whereas in the past we might just do a general what's a hotel chain doing, but now the individual restaurants and bars, uh, as well as major airlines and hotels are getting a lot more coverage than that. So we want to hear more about what these businesses are doing. They are not only just trying to hang on that, that's how they're hanging on, but how they're and also build for the post dependent period, which hopefully will be coming soon.

Michael (13:15)
Indeed. So what kind of innovations are you seeing in the advertising and marketing world and what could we expect coming down the pike in terms of new ways to reach consumers?

David (13:25)
I think it's looking at ways to bridge that, as I said, more personal to mass roll. The Superbowl Marathon, which is so obviously important to an advertising publication, and, you know, it's interesting how the ratings were down significantly as expected, for the broadcasters. People weren't watching in bars and they weren't watching at Superbowl parties together. But the idea of how that's impacted the value of traditional advertising, you know, something that has been a main states route, all the talk of innovation and, you know, programmatic advertising, for example, that this has become a pillar.

And now, as we look to the Oscars to see what is happening with traditional and how is traditional being, how's traditional advertising and marketing techniques, how are they being advanced particularly for, you know, people on their second screen, which has become their first lead mobile. Um, that is, that is where it's happening and how the idea of balancing a mass brand message, but making it personal, and feel personal is the, you know, is where the innovations are really happening. The idea that everyone is kind of atomized to a certain extent, they're on their own, but they're still having this mass communication, whether it's Instagram or Facebook still, or Twitter obviously, or Pinterest.

Hanna (14:53)
To be featured in Adweek, do you need to undertake paid advertising campaigns or is it simply people who are doing interesting things in the marketing world?

David (15:04)
I think it's the latter. Um, you know, I think the idea of just featuring a campaign, it has to be obviously special and has to be somehow either reflective of the larger audiences interests. Um, you know, certainly whatever Budweiser does is probably going to be interesting. Um, but at the same time, anyone who's just coming out of left field with an idea, marketing idea or advertising idea, a brand idea that is relevant. As I said, the overarching theme that I see Adweek as, is the business of communications. How do businesses, you know, explain who they are, how do they reach consumers? If they're doing something interesting, we’re interested and that's the bottom line. I think for anyone who wants to be in Adweek, uh, and. We'll obviously make that call.

Michael (16:02)
So as you know, a lot of our listeners are chefs, bartenders, sommeliers, and you know, a lot of them don't have the budget to run ad campaigns or marketing campaigns, but they still need to get the word out about themselves and their businesses. So do you have any advice for what they should be doing? 

David (16:18)
Yeah. Uh, I think what we've seen from independent businesses in particularly has been absolutely just, you know, just gripping. Um, one thing that comes to mind, it's not a bar, but, we featured a few weeks ago a local, Brooklyn bookstore, Greenlight Books in Fort Greene, had done this really interesting campaign. There's a lot of tension between, you know, physical mom and pop shops and Amazon obviously. And they had created this really amazing visual outside of their store with all these boxes, trying to attract attention and get people to come in to a bookstore or at least go online to a local bookstore rather than Amazon and buy their books. And we were able to feature this is a local. They have I think just two locations in New York. But that was able to resonate with bookstores and local businesses in general.

And we were happy to feature that as an example of this creativity. That was not a major aspect, but it punched much higher than its weight. And that is the kind of thing that restaurants, we've done things on restaurants and bars, doing interesting things with their sandwich boards that are put outside the bars and having interesting messages there. The way that also is amplifying social media, the playing field is a lot more level than it has ever been. And seeing what activity, especially from local bars and restaurants, that is something that we can definitely, we'll definitely turn our heads.

Michael (18:04)
So, one of the things that we really enjoy about Adweek is all the profile stories that, you know, really look at the people behind the news. So how are those folks chosen generally?

David (18:16)
I think it all comes across as trying to actively look, to see who other people are influenced by. Who other people respect, you know, you can't just kind of nominate yourself to say, hey, uh, I deserve a cover because I'm so wonderful. It's, you just hear, you know, part of the job of any news publication that is focusing on a specific area of the world is to see, who are people looking to? Who are the people that are making the changes that are, that are in leadership positions that are taking leadership positions and moving things forward and providing some level of direction for everybody else. And I think those are the basic criteria that we look for in terms of who is someone who deserves the spotlight.

I think, especially now trying to look at not who are the same voices that we have come to expect, but to look elsewhere and to again, open the lens a lot wider and into more areas than we've ever done before, which I think is incumbent upon eery news publication, there's been the weight. The lens has been much too narrow and much too repetitive for too long. And instead there are people, this is an opportunity that people have seen as to drive change and how that's happening. Who's doing it, that's who we profile. 

Hanna (19:52)
Do you have any advice for those without any ad budgets who can raise their profile on social media? What should they be doing?

David (20:01)
I think being able to truly show who you are and express who you are as an individual, not just trying to be calculating about this is, you know, this professional photo will stand out. I don't think so. I mean, there are, the only way to stand out is to be yourself, to be individual, that's the only way people will be interested in getting to know you. The idea of, uh, as I said, uh, I think creativity is generally spurred by limitations. If you have a biggest ad budget, you're probably just going to do something safe because you don't want to waste all that money. Whereas if you don't have anything, uh, you know, you can try anything. And just being, uh, as I said, the word authentic, yup, this keeps coming up because it's, it's the only thing that works.

Having something to, to express and being able to do it. You know, individually as an individual, not as just another, this or that kind of brand, that's what makes you stand out and you don't need a budget to particularly now to be able to showcase who you are, what you're interested in, what you're, what you're thinking about or what you care about. One-to-one it's all really one-to-one marketing, uh, one of the time and it builds up quickly 

Michael (21:22)
You said earlier that you're open to receiving pitches and our, you know, I'm sure our listeners are very anxious to know if there are any critical do's and don'ts for pitching.

David (21:34)
Yeah. I would say one, try to have that conversation first to see, you know, what I'm interested in. Like if I know your name that helps. But two, the idea is that, uh, you can tell him the second that this is just an email that has gone out to the spray and pray, you know, every journalist, no matter what, and you know, it's not really meant for you. And so if it's not special, if I'm not special enough, and again, I understand no one has time to, you know, or the budget to talk to everyone in particular, but I think that you'd go slow more slowly and you take time to one build relationship to see, hey, you didn't seem to cover this area of the marketplace, I'm doing something really different, uh, but you know, how would I get you interested. Basically asking, I think to see what someone's interested in, as opposed to just sort of throwing something at them and hoping it catches their attention at the right moment is the best way. Um, thinking about, how does someone get your attention?

You know, you have to offer something in order to get something we're trying, you can't be like please cover this, I'm going to be fired something. Or my business is going to fail. If you don't cover this or you've covered my competitor last week, why don't you just cover me, those kinds of ideas aren't going to fly, but the idea that I'm offering your readers, something interesting, I'm offering you some insight that you don't have. That is what, you know, figuring out what's valuable to the person you want to reach. That is, I think just goes for any kind of relationship, as opposed to, you know, just check me out

Hanna (23:14)
All about relationship building. 

David (23:15)
Yeah. 

Hanna (23:15)
So we call it our show Hospitality Forward because we are optimistic about our industry and we know we are going to bounce back. So, do you have any individuals or organizations in your opinion that stand out that are moving hospitality forward?

David (23:33)
Sean Feeney and the ROAR organization have done an amazing job. Obviously I've been watching the misery that restaurants are in with constantly being buffeted by the ever-changing rules and regulations and, uh, closing. Oh, sorry, it's about to snow, everyone close now. Um, you know, and being on the front lines in so many ways of safety, and I think that ROAR has really done such great work in being responsible in their messaging, not just sort of demanding that restaurants all be open indoors with a hundred percent capacity.

And I think they've been smart in that communication. So that off the top of my head, it's good to see, you know, local, independent restaurants have the ability to come together and have a champion that hopefully will benefit all of them because we all need to eat. And just having a clamshell lettuce and produce is not going to get us through this. We kind of need restaurants with a sort of joy as well as for the economic stability of  cities, towns and the country at large the world at large. They are literally the front line apart from, from the healthcare workers.

Michael (25:01)
And, and really the backbone of so many communities and so much of our day to day life and culture. So now for the listener questions segment of our show. We have a question from Amanda Stackman, Marketing Director of Fever Tree USA. Amanda is a marketing veteran of many years and a big fan of Adweek. She asks your opinion, what should beverage brands be doing that they currently aren't doing to market themselves most effectively in a post COVID world?

David (25:33)
Hmm. I've really loved, uh, the last few years of this idea of brand ambassadors. And, you know, at first I kind of looked at it as well, you know, no one maybe wants to be a bartender forever, and this is kind of a good career transition, but the idea is that bartenders are people who you as a consumer trust and the relationships that, uh, spirits brands, if we're talking about them in particular, you know, have struck with them. I think that's been such a great, great thing to see.

And it's not a feeling that, you know, that they are just become, you know, just trying to hawk something, but these are people who've worked with and know these, these tastes so well. And you know, I love when I can go into a bar and someone knows what, Oh, you should try this, you will love it. And I think the way those spirit brands can, as I said, support those bars who need it. Um, is, is important. I think that, you know, the idea is there are an endless amount of brands and the way you stand out is by having an advocate who has developed trust with, with, with their consumers directly, uh, you really can't ask for someone better than to have a brand ambassador who has that reach now, especially I've watched a number of bhajans I admire, uh, on social media, uh, doing their, you know, sort of evangelizing to consumers.

And I think, you know, when we can't be in bars, having people who can speak to many through social media is essential and it's not just something that, oh, hey, here, let's just send this guy a bottle and hopefully he'll talk about it. I think, you know, collaborating with those bartenders and knowing what and respecting them and knowing what their audience wants to hear. I think that's the best way to go 

Hanna (28:02)
So, David, it has been so wonderful talking with you and hopefully we see you at one of our favorite bars and share a cocktail or two soon.

David (28:11)
Cheers to that. And again, thank you both.