Episode #27 - Katie Lockhart, National Geographic, Rachael Ray, CNN, Zagat, AFAR
Hanna (01:45): Hi, Katie.
Michael (01:46): Welcome to the show.
Katie (01:48): Hi, thanks for having me.
Hanna (01:49): So you zooming in from Vietnam, uh, which is one of our favorite countries, but you used to live in Brooklyn. So what made you move halfway around the world?
Katie (02:00): Yeah, so, uh, I wasn't supposed to be living in Vietnam technically. Um, my boyfriend and I have been traveling around Asia for almost three years now. And we were supposed to be in Vietnam for three months, but it's turned into 13 months now, um, because of the pandemic. But yeah, we're so, so happy, so lucky to be here. Um, and, uh, I was living in New York and I was working in television.
But I had a journalism degree. And I really wanted to pursue journalism. So, um, I was like, I'm going to kind of take this risk, um, and move to a place that was more affordable to kind of launch this new career path and also offered me a lot of opportunity for really great stories.
Hanna (02:46): Vietnam is a beautiful country, so not a bad place to be.
Michael (02:49): If you have to be locked down anywhere, Vietnam is certainly a good spot. So we understand that Vietnam normally attracts 18 million visitors a year. So from your experience, how has the hospitality and travel sector been fairing under COVID-19?
Katie (03:05): Vietnam has handled the pandemic incredibly well, um, the government leaped into action pretty much immediately. And so Vietnam has fared it incredibly well in terms of their economy. They're one of I think only three countries in the world that have a positive GDP this year. Um, however I am based out of the tourist town of Hoi An, which is beautiful and it's amazing, but they are really struggling just because of a lack of tourism. So lots of hotels, restaurants and cafes have closed down and, um, that's been, that's been hard to see, but people here are very, very resilient, so they've been able to cope.
Michael (03:46): Speaking of resilience, what kinds of innovations are you seeing in the travel and hospitality industry in Vietnam that you think could inspire our listeners globally?
Katie (03:57): They're really amazing at just pivoting and just that kind of sucking it up and doing whatever they need to do for the greater good. Um, one of my friends Chang, she owned a clothing company that was geared towards tourists. So they would go and dress up and they'd walk around town and they'd take photos with these like beautiful, you know, ancient costumes on. And so she had to close that down, of course, because there's no tourists. And, um, she started a nut company. So now she sells like macadamia nuts and walnuts and stuff around town, and she's doing really well. So you know she just sort of like saw an opportunity to change her business and it's worked out for her.
Hanna (04:45): That's great. That's an interesting story. So you've traveled to so many countries, um, I believe over 50 countries and all seven continents. And so, you know, in your Travel + Leisure magazine article, you described yourself as living out of a suitcase before the pandemic. So what do you like most about travel?
Katie (05:05): What I like most about travel? I think it's just how exciting it is, you know, when you land in a new airport and you get into a cab and you start to see a new place for the first time, everything is new, everything is exciting. Um, and for me personally, new food is really exciting. So I've got a whole list of street food vendors and then Michelin star restaurants to try. And, and that's one of the things that. Excites me most.
Hanna (05:31): Yeah, same here. Whenever we travel overseas, we go to the supermarket first to check out their local produce and specialty foods. And you get to really learn about, uh, you know, the local culture that way.
Katie (05:44): Definitely.
Michael (05:45): So when it starts to feel safe to travel again, what country will you visit first and why?
Katie (05:50): If anywhere in the world, once it's totally safe, I really want to go to Namibia. I think just the tented lodges there, like in the desert and the landscape is so stark and gorgeous. Um, and also those, those dunes and they have the kind of like dead looking trees juxtaposed in front of them is just, it's amazing.
Hanna (06:09): One day that's on our bucket list as well.
Katie (06:12): For sure.
Hanna (06:13): You write for us so many different publications, like Rachael Ray, National Geographic, CNN, and many more, and each publication has a different audience, as we all know. So can you tell us how different they are and also how you are customizing your stories? For example, what is the difference between Rachael Ray and CNN.
Katie (06:36): Yeah. So I guess when I start to pitch a story, the first thing I do is I go to the website and I see what they have, what the most recent articles are and how they're formatting them and sort of the tone of them. And then I can customize my pitch to that. And typically when it's like a more newsy story, uh, I pitch CNN first so I can sort of get that scoop. Uh, and then for more, I guess, fun kind of interesting evergreen stuff I like to pitch Rachael Ray. And then within the writing process itself, um, you know, the tone for something like CNN is kind of more research heavy and, and more fact-based. Where of course, I mean, Rachael Ray is still fact-based, but it's a much lighter tone and more fun and not afraid to use exclamation points and things like that. Um, so that's fun.
Michael (07:30): So you also write for Zagat. So tell us about Zagat Stories, which features first person narratives.
Hanna (07:38): Yeah. And also how do you find these folks and what's the process?
Katie (07:42): Yeah, so yeah, Stories is a really interesting idea. And when my editor first kind of introduced it to me and told me about it, I was like, oh geez, okay. It was just really new and really different. But it's essentially a conversation with someone and you cut out all the lines. Where you're talking. So it's just one big, long rambling story that they're telling you, but they're really just answering your questions. And so you have to kind of piece it together, like a jigsaw puzzle so that it flows and that it makes sense. And, you know, when I have these conversations with these chefs or these hoteliers they're an hour long. So it ends up being like 6,000 words cut down to a thousand. So there's quite a heavy editing process that goes into it.
Hanna (08:30): That's interesting.
Katie (08:31): Yeah. They're really fun though. And they're very much based on a personal story. So it's not like a newsy thing. It's, you know, it might have an angle of the pandemic or how that's affected, you know, a chef, it ties in very heavily with their own story, what they're going through or their past. There was one I wrote with Simon Kim from Cote in New York.
He was really great to talk to you, he had so many interesting stories. I wish I could have made it like 5,000 words. So a lot of it tied into his upbringing in Long Island, after moving from Korea, where he spoke literally no English, um, and sort of, you know, his family history and his relationship with his father. So it's not just about how your restaurant is doing right now. There's a lot of personal stuff that goes into it. And so I try to talk to PR people when they introduce me to a chef, which is mostly how, how I get these story ideas is I come back to them immediately. And I'm like, can you tell me a really interesting, personal story about them? Is there a really interesting, um, you know, upbringing or something that they're going through right now that they'd be open to talking to and are open to talking about?
Michael (09:45): I mean, it makes it so relatable. And I found Simon's story very moving. So as you know, our listeners are amazing chefs, sommeliers, bartenders and hoteliers around the world who have great stories to share. So what steps can our listeners take to be featured in your stories overall?
Katie (10:03): Yeah, I'd say honestly, just reach out. Uh, since the pandemic I've noticed that PR people aren't emailing as much anymore. Maybe they don't have something that's appropriate to pitch, but I've found myself like doing calls on social media to be like, hey, pitch me stuff. Because, if I don't have pitches, I can't then pitch my editors and I can't get paid. So I'm like, please, I need some new ideas. I need some new stories. So honestly just send an email and don't be afraid even if you're not you know, repped by someone.
Hanna (10:38): What is your approach to finding a great story and where do you get your inspiration?
Katie (10:44): Some of my stories come from PR pitches, you know, something they say in one sentence will spark an idea and I'll be like, oh that's interesting. Can you tell me more? And we'll sort of like dig into that angle and we'll elaborate on that a bit more before I pitch to an editor. Um, and of course because I travel full time, a lot of my story ideas just come from travel, and something I observed like, you know, in a food tour. We might go to this one stall where this man has an amazing story about this duck that he makes, or something like that. And that will kind of spark something that could be a profile on him or it could be a listicle of like amazing duck places, I don't know, something like that.
Michael (11:30): So the economy is so different now when the pandemic has really affected travel, obviously how much has that changed? The types of places you feature and how are you able to cover them from a distance?
Katie (11:41): Yeah, it's really interesting. And at first it was really challenging and sort of a whole new territory. And I've been recently getting a lot of stories about different weekends coming up to sort of start to promote US travel and in good conscience, I just can't do that. Um, so I'm like, you know, sorry. This isn't a fit right now. Um, but because I've been in Vietnam and I'm one of the very, very few American journalists here, it's been a really great opportunity for me to pitch about the destination because unlike the rest of the world, Vietnam really isn't closed down. It's been able to act as normal, to be honest. And so I've been able to write a lot about what the experience is like here, new hotels opening up here. Um, so I've been very, very fortunate.
Hanna (12:33): You are also very active on social media, as you mentioned. So in addition to letting people know pitch me with your stories through your social media, how do you leverage social media?
Katie (12:45): I have a lot of hotel content that I write. And so I do a lot of hotel stays and it's a really great place for me to showcase the hotel in a different light than, you know, an article and to help promote the hotel in a different way. So I really like to do that and you know, same for restaurants, I um, shoot as many, you know, hotel photos as I do food photos. And I also do the swipe up feature for my stories when they come out. I like to highlight those so that people can read them. And yeah, it's become a bit of a hobby, but a little bit of an obsession and yeah, it's bad.
Hanna (13:36): We have the same thing in common, obsession on all things digital. And I see you also on LinkedIn. So how do you use LinkedIn for your work?
Katie (13:35): Yeah, I actually love LinkedIn. I think it's a bit of an underused platform for journalists. Yeah. I have a lot of connections through there and I get a lot of people reaching out and I think it's really undervalued. Actually, a lot of journalists think Twitter is everything. I get so many pitches from Twitter. I get so many connections and I'm like, I don't get anything for Twitter. I get everything from LinkedIn. And so I use LinkedIn to showcase my articles, of course. And I'm also, I also do copywriting and content creation for different hotel brands, different food and hospitality brands. And so I make a lot of my connections through there. I have conversations on that platform. And again, I do, um, you know, PR calls and like, if anyone has a female-based small business, please reach out to me.
I get a lot of PR pitches from those, which is super helpful when writing.
Hanna (14:34): Obviously you are very digital savvy from Instagram to LinkedIn. So what advice would you give to our listeners on, let's say using social media to promote themselves or their work to get your attention?
Katie (14:48): Yeah, I think it's a great platform and a lot of people really want to see kind of like a human connection. And I, myself don't do this as much as I should. Um, but they want to know what's going on. And they wanted to see, you know, the behind the scenes of a kitchen every day, they want to see the specials that are happening. And they also want to see like, what you're doing, you know, on a Saturday when you're not in the kitchen.
So it becomes sort of like essentially a diary and people want you to open up any kind of tell their lives. Of course, some people aren't comfortable with that. I'm kind of one of those people. Um, so I definitely understand that aspect of it and, you know, rather keep it just professional. But definitely, you know, showcase what you're proud of and start to kind of cultivate, you know, a following, um, start to cultivate relationships with journalists, you know, follow us and, and, you know, say hey, love your recent story or whatever, if you're trying to make connections that way, I think that's always appreciated.
Hanna (15:49): Do you mind getting a DM messages?
Katie (15:53): I don't. As long as they're polite and nice and are genuine, you know, I can't just like, pull a story out of anywhere. So if you're like, oh I have a, you know, I have a new peanut butter, can you write about it? And I'm like, well, what, what about this new peanut butter? You know, like things like that.
Michael (16:14): All right. So moving on to overall pitching, do you have any tips for our listeners who want to pitch their stories to you? Especially if they don't have a PR agency on board, do you have any do's and don’t for them to follow?
Hanna (16:26): Yeah, for example, like this peanut butter guy. So what, what does he have to do to get your attention for potentially working with you?
Katie (16:34): Sure. So, um, I definitely prefer email to be in contact with people. It just helps me to keep organized, but send me an email, you know, introduce yourself. And for me it’s getting those kind of like, they almost are screenshots of images that are talking about something and it's clearly a bulk sort of send and I just sort of ignore those. Um, so I definitely like a more personalized message. It doesn't have to be like, I saw your Instagram story and you're in blah, blah, blah. And you know, it doesn't have to be like that. I just sort of would say, hey, how are you? I'm so-and-so, here's my new, you know, blank. And, you know, we'd love to send you samples or would love to chat with you more.
I think sort of just like on a genuine level, it goes a long way and it makes me more interested in hearing about the product. And I think a lot of people get intimidated to sort of put themselves out there. And I think, you know, you've got to just do it. If you don't ask, it's not going to happen.
Hanna (17:39): I think that is why we started our podcast to help those individuals who are a little intimidated, you know, and don't know how to get to the media, despite having a such an amazing story to share. So, um, thanks for your tips, but quick question about the email pitch. So do you prefer for a short and sweet pitch or do you want them to write as much as detailed?
Katie (18:06): Well, that's a good question. I think a short and sweet pitch with the main points, the most important things that you want me to know, because that's how I format my pitches to my editors. They're only a few sentences long. And they just talk about the major things and if I'm interested and if I want to know more then I'll respond back and ask some follow-up questions and we could really delve into it.
Hanna (18:32): As you know there’s a lot of industry professionals who are also great writers like yourself. So for those who want to break into, let's say food and drinks, travel journalism. Do you have any tips?
Katie (18:47): Um, I think again, one of my biggest tips is don't be afraid to get yourself out there and just pitch.
I know a lot of amazing writers who have a list of dream publications, I would say most do. And I'm sort of like, but why are they just a dream? You know, just send out a pitch.
Hanna (19:07): Yeah, just do it.
Katie (19:08): Just do it.
Michael (19:09): You got nothing to lose.
Katie (19:10): Exactly. And a lot of people are very intimidated and I totally understand that there's a lot of imposter syndrome in the industry, which I have myself sometimes. Um, so I definitely get the trepidation, but that's one of my biggest advice to people just starting out is, they're like, oh, I want to work myself up to, you know, pitch Travel + Leisure. And I'm like, just pitch, you know, you're not writing about yourself. You're writing about a topic that they're interested in. So you're selling the topic. You're not selling yourself.
Hanna (19:38): I love that. You are selling the topic, not yourself. I think this is a really, really great tip because I think then it goes beyond you, it's not about you. It's about the topics that you want to share with our leaders.
Katie (19:51): Right?
Michael (19:52): Don't don't take it personally. Yeah. It's funny. The old expression is if you build a better mouse trap, the world will be the path to your door. Unfortunately, that's not the case. You know, you could build the best mousetrap in the world. You've got to get out there. You got to let the world know it exists.
Katie (20:07): Correct.
Hanna (20:08): We call our podcast Hospitality Forward because we are optimistic about our industry and we know we're going to bounce back. So in your opinion, and Katie, are there any individuals or organizations that stand out for moving hospitality forward?
Katie (20:27): Yeah, there are so many amazing people who are doing really amazing things in the US right now. One of the people that comes to mind is, um, chef Edward Lee. And he was, yeah, he was doing really great things, uh, for quality in the kitchen before COVID through the Lee initiative.
And then once the pandemic hit, he started to use his kitchen to supply meals for the community. And he was also one of the leading voices in getting the restaurant act passed. So I think he's a really, really great person to kind of look up to. And also Chris Williams out of Houston. He started the nonprofit Lucille's 1913. And, um, I mean, I think now they've served well over a hundred thousand meals out of sustainable community kitchens to those in need.
Michael (21:19): So that's really amazing.
Katie (21:20): Yeah. It's really amazing. And it's really just lovely to see.
Hanna (21:23): Yeah, there are a lot of beautiful people doing beautiful work for our industry, especially during this very challenging time.
Michael (21:30): Yeah. A lot of silver linings emerging.
Hanna (21:32): The more reason we love our industry because there are so many beautiful people, um, try to help each other.
Katie (21:38): Totally.
Michael (21:39): And now for the listener questions segment of our show. We have a question from Pete Weiss, Marketing Manager at Town Branch distillery, the first distillery to open in Lexington, Kentucky post-prohibition and a member of the famed Kentucky bourbon trail. Pete would like to know what you think the future of distillery tourism looks like and what they should do to boost their visibility, to attract tourists.
Katie (22:04): It's a really interesting question right now, because in the industry we're seeing this trend of basically non-alcoholic alcohol. So, a lot of people are kind of doing, you know, of course the dry January, and they're kind of cutting down on alcohol and I did an interview, uh, for Rachael Ray actually about this non alcoholic bourbon by three women that was started in Kentucky and that was really interesting.
Hanna (22:34): I found that story very fascinating.
Katie (22:38): Yeah. Kind of unsurprising down there. Um, because bourbon, it's like a religion essentially, but yeah this is definitely a trend we're seeing. I think to kind of set yourself apart, you do have to offer some non-alcoholic stuff for people, because that is now very starting to be a big market. Um, and also creating a product that's different and interesting. Another article I just wrote for Rachael Ray, funnily enough was about the first native American distillery in the country. And they are making vodka and gin using whey, which is a really interesting angle, a really interesting selling point.
Hanna (23:23): Wisconsin, right? Was that from Wisconsin? Exactly. We thought it was a fascinating story.
Katie (23:28): Yeah. And they also created something called vodskey, which is vodka distilled in whiskey barrels. So these are both, you know, very interesting creations that will help attract people. That will have people want to try their product. So, yeah, I think it's up to, you know, just being really innovative right now.
Hanna (24:15): Really great speaking with you and thank you so much, zooming in from Vietnam and, um, Hope to see you soon here in New York, in Brooklyn or somewhere in Vietnam sometime soon.
Katie (24:33): Definitely. Thank you so much for having me. It was really fun.
Hanna (24:35): Bye Katie.
Michael (24:36): Bye bye.