Episode #30 - Dan Q. Dao, Food & Wine, Saveur, Vice

Hanna (01:25): Hi, Dan, welcome to the show. 

Michael (01:27): Great to have you on.

Dan (01:28): Hi, thank you for having me.

Hanna (01:30): It has been over a year since the pandemic started. So what new skills as a generalist have you had to acquire? 

Dan (01:38): I mean, it's been a crazy time for sure. For everyone. Oh, you know, behind the bar writing about bars, it's just throughout the industry. It's been a really hectic time and I think the biggest skill that a lot of us have learned is digital. Just all things digital. I think that things were already moving in the direction of everything being digital. But in time, I think it just accelerated that push towards digital. So you see big players like Drizly really taking off, but then you also see small players getting on e-commerce, you know, trying to take control of their means of distribution and their means of sales. And I know it's particularly tricky in liquor because of different regulations and laws, but I think a lot of people have gotten very savvy on digital, me included, um, as a journalist. 

Hanna (02:30): And us too, you know, we had to learn fast and, and practice, you know, when you look at the bartenders, I mean, now they're doing so many online classes and I think that's a really great skills that they had to learn, but they are leveraging the skills.

Dan (02:43): Yeah, absolutely. 

Michael (02:44): So beyond amping your digital skills, you also relocated to Houston recently after living in New York City for many years. So what's it like freelancing for the Lone Star State?  And have you been able to add more outlets to the roster of those outlets that you write for? 

Dan (03:01): Absolutely. Um, you know, after living in New York City for 10 years, it is a big, big change to come back to my hometown, Houston. But I think this is the time where, you know, local journalism is important. I think people writing about the, you know, for the local magazines for the local newspapers is important because all of the media companies are kind of merging. We have these big shifts in the media industry and the media landscape in New York city. And at the same time with the move towards digital.

Things are more remote. You know, I can still participate in New York media without being in New York, but this is for me to become a person that people want to reach out to when they want to learn more about Texas and what's going on in Texas. So I'm, I do have some new publications I'm working with like Houstonian Magazine, like, uh, Texas Monthly. And then I'm also working on a story right now for Daily Beast, about a city in Texas. So, um, I think I want people to see me as someone who can connect New York and Texas as there are so many others you know who've done the same, but it's been really nice to kind of have an opportunity to shed some light on where I'm from, because I'm very proud of being from here.

HANNA (04:22): Definitely. So the great news is that the indoor dining capacities are increasing everywhere. Thank God. So with this in mind, what will you be focusing on in terms of covering hospitality in the coming months?

Dan (04:37): Um, so right now I'm interested in covering the reopening of bars, venues, as things kind of reopen. I want to be there to kind of help celebrate that moment and also inform people of how to best go back to going out safely. I think that's just everyone's coverage, even if it's not the main focus, you know, there's always a little bit of that information, those details and that's just our responsibility as journalists, right? Because at the end of the day, even if we're writing about the hospitality industry and we're not news reporters, per se, um, I think we can still bring that element of service and journalism to our audience. Um, at the same time, I'm also interested in continuing to cover what we can do at home. I think during the pandemic really shifted to service oriented journalism, cocktails, recipes, how to use new bottles to try at home. So I think that, you know, we had this moment of at-home bartending, where people were more enthusiastic to try things at home and I think that's something positive that could stay with us even when we are going back to bars again. 

Michael (05:50): It definitely helped raise my home bartending game and I have no intention of slowing down. 

Hanna (05:55): No, please don't. I need your home bartending skills.

Michael (06:00): So, let's shift for a moment beyond, beyond local and take more of a global aspect. You wrote a piece in Conde Nast Traveler that explained why you were going to move to Vietnam, the country your parents fled decades ago. I mean, we found that such a moving, personal story to share, but we are curious what led to your decision to write about it?

Dan (06:22): Sure and you know what's funny about this piece is that it went live the month I was supposed to move, but because COVID, um, I wasn't able to. And so now it's, everything is shifted by a year. And my goal now is to be able to go over there, um, August of 2021 instead of August, 2020. Um, but what really made me decide to write about moving back to Vietnam is that, you know, it's something that I it's, it's been in the works for so long, right, like I think I realized I wanted to go to Vietnam when I saw how much things were changing there. I want to be part of their movement to bring Vietnam to the world in a sustainable way, in an ethical way.

I wanted to cover the key players that were doing things with integrity. I wanted to show that we have a very, very strong culture to be proud of and with how popular or how trendy Vietnamese cuisine is getting in America and worldwide. I wanted to go right back to the source and as someone who speaks, reads, and writes Vietnamese, I just felt like I had a unique position to do so. Um, and that could contribute something of value to the travel industry.

Hanna (07:42): Vietnam is one of our favorite countries and we've been there several times. So when you move, we'll come and see you.

Dan (07:48): Yes, please do. 

Hanna (07:51): Absolutely. 

Michael (07:51): And on a related note, when it's safe to travel again, where's the first place you want to visit? And why?

Hanna (07:58): Before Vietnam. 

Dan (08:00): Um, I think there are several places I want to go. One is Costa Rica because I just fell in love with it when I went. Um, it's beautiful, it's just so peaceful because, um, we go out to Tamarindo on the Pacific coast, which is for surfing, which is kind of a beach town. So Costa Rica is number one, Santiago, Chile was one of the last trips I took before COVID and I did a tour of all the wineries, a bunch of different wineries near Santiago and I wrote about that for Conde Nast Traveler, and then the last place I want to go is Madrid in Spain. It's just, it's my favorite city in Europe period.

Hanna (08:45): So what do you like most about travel? 

Dan (08:48): I love meeting people from outside of where I grew up or where I live, I just love the different perspectives. And I love being able to kind of realign my very American way of thinking with how other people  see the world, because I think sometimes, in New York, especially we get caught in a bubble, um, and there's the New York lifestyle. There's the New York way of seeing things, um, and I think it's just good to regain perspective, um, when you leave New York and that was always really important to me since, like I said, I, you know, living in New York for 10 years travel was what helps me kind of stay grounded in the sense that there, there's not just one way to live one way to think. So that's, I mean, travel, it really is kind of that deep for me. You know what I mean? 

Hanna (09:41): Yeah. I agree with you and I think for me, when we leave New York city, you know, there's so much excitement to go someplace else, but then when we come back, we come back with so much inspiration. So I think that travel is absolutely one of the greatest ways to stimulate your curiosity and continue to learn about other cultures and get to know people. 

Dan (10:04): Absolutely.

Michael (10:05): And I'd also add just, you know, opening your mind, opening your palette. Travel is the best way to do that in the most efficient way.

Dan (10:12): Right.

Michael (10:13): So we'll always be fans and we know that you share a lot of your travels on social media, but which platforms do you find the most useful for researching and writing your stories? You know, from a practical standpoint.

Dan (10:28): Yeah. Um, I think Instagram is so important because of the kind of visual component, obviously like to see what something looks like, I think a lot of times when I'm pitching editors about a specific property, um, I'll send them the Instagram account from that hotel and say, look how amazing this is, look how cute it is kind of thing. Um, I think Twitter for finding information I'm I use Twitter a lot because I love how kind of, uh, unfiltered people's thoughts about what, um, you know, at any, any topic you can find information on because Twitter just allows you to be really candid about what you think. So I think those Twitter and Instagram are my two kinds of social media platforms that I use for all of my writing. 

Hanna (11:18): Well, now another social media platform that we all are obsessed is Clubhouse. So I mean, as a marketer, we see tremendous value in being on it. What do you think of clubhouse as a generalist?

Dan (11:35):Yeah. Um, so I got on Clubhouse, uh, in December and I was on it a lot, kind of in that early phase when there weren't a ton of people on it and I loved it. I loved how immediate the connections were, you don't, it's not like you're scrolling through someone's Instagram, where you can see all their photos and kind of understand.

I think the magic of Clubhouse is that you're thrown in a situation where the only way you can interact with people is actively by having conversation. There's no passive engagement on Clubhouse. Whereas like on Instagram you can passively be friends with someone on Instagram for many years and never speak to them, right. And I'm on the phone with them right away. So there is an immediacy and kind of directness that I really appreciate about Clubhouse. Um, and I think as a marketer, as a journalist, um, Yeah. I mean, it's a great way to reach potential clients, potential story subjects. So people you want to interview, um, yeah, I'm a fan.

Hanna (12:43): Us too, us too.

Michael (12:46): You can tell we are.

Hanna (12:47): Yes.

Dan (12:47): Yes.

Hanna (12:48): So, let's focus on journalism one-on-one for a moment for our listeners. So if you can explain the difference between a feature story versus a roundup story and a profile story versus a trend story. 

Dan (13:05): Okay. So I do all types of writing. Um, and I would say that the difference between a feature and a Roundup is a feature tends to be written through all the way. Um, and a round up we'll break things up into lists and items. So roundups are typically focused on products or i's best hotels and its 10 different venues. So it's just a more digestible form of writing for a lot of people who are looking for information really fast. And so a lot of times roundups tend to be generated through SEO. Right? Look at what, um, from a digital content planning perspective, right, we're looking at what keywords people are searching, um, and then we're creating stories around that.

And I think like people, you know, people look down on roundups or listicles as, as people call, um, we're really providing a service, a very direct service to our audience by giving them the exact information that they're searching online, so that there's a service element to it. Um, features are narrative-based, are driven by a specific story. They have a beginning, a middle and end. They have a nut graph, which is like the paragraph that distills the main point of the story. So it's more like the kind of essay that you would write in college, um, you know, for a writing class. And then the difference between profiles and trend pieces is profiles are centered around one person, whereas trends are centered around a movement or something that's happening. Although I think those two, there can be a lot of overlap. Someone can be deserving of a profile or a profile can be newsworthy because of a trend, right? You know if premium rum, for example, is a trend that's happening, then a profile of a premium rum maker would be timely at that time. 

Hanna (15:06): Great. Thanks so much for the explanation, because we've got a lot of questions from our audiences. I mean, obviously as a PR pro we know, but, uh, those who are not familiar with a PR process, they will ask him a lot of questions.

Dan (15:18): Absolutely.

Michael (15:19): All right. So obviously, you know, over the years you've done, you know, a lot of features, rounds up profiles and trend stories. You know, looking ahead in the coming months, how do you see that breaking out for you? Are you going to be doing more of one than another? 

Dan (15:34): I mean I think that I, like a lot of writers during COVID, also realized that we needed to expand outside of our regular writing. So, um, as you know, I've mentioned, I started in an agency called District One, and so I've been doing a lot of brand strategy copywriting, you know, advertising type writing. So what that has done for my journalism work is that on the journalism side, I'm going to be focusing more on in-depth features. I want to do long form. I want to do more personal essays and more narrative based writing because writing is still my passion. Journalism is still my passion, but I think a lot of writers like myself, you know, we've turned to commercial writing to supplement our income during this time because of just the instability of the meeting. And so for me, I'll be focusing on pieces that I really care about that I'm really proud of. Um, so I can keep my writing going while still working on my, you know, my brand strategy and the other things I'm involved in.

Hanna (16:40): You had a great story in Saveur, on “31 Bottles for the Home Bar,” and so what is your process for selecting those special bottles to spotlight? 

Dan (16:51): So whenever we do bottle stories at Saveur, um, this is always really fun because it takes me back to when I was an editor at Saveur and we would be in the test and all of us, you know, sitting around sampling a bunch of different liquor on, you know, on a Friday afternoon kind of thing. Um, but of course this year, things have been different, but it's still the same process. You know, I'll call in a bunch of different samples, sit around with some friends, we'll try them all, we'll make some notes. Um, and that's really how the bottles get chosen. And we, of course, we try to pick lots of different, uh, products from different categories. I always want to make sure that we're representing. Um, A, a diversity of categories, a diversity of geography and in diversity of style and spirit so.

Hanna (17:44): Yeah, I mean, again, you are doing, um, especially a service to all the audience. Cause I think, you know, having those roundup stories is helpful because we are having a lot of options to pick and choose. 

Michael (17:54): Yeah. It's created quite a few shopping lists for us.

Hanna (17:59): Yeah I know. In our hospitality industry, um, there has been a lot of innovation happening as you have seen. So what trends do you predict will be back in 2021 and 2022? 

Dan (18:13): Um, I would think that the ready to drink segment of the market is only going to continue expanding and getting larger. And that includes non-alcoholic beverages a lot of times. Um, so those two, I find to be somewhat  interrelated. So we have a lot of ready to drink, canned bottle style cocktails. Um, and then we also have a lot of different non-alcoholic options. So those two, I think, are the biggest category trends. And then on the hospitality and restaurant side, I'm hoping that to-go cocktails can remain something, um, as an, as a kind of alternate revenue stream for these brick and mortar establishments. Um, but to go off of that even more, I think I've seen a lot of brick and mortar establishments creating an online presence, you know, like for example, like Fort Defiance and Red Hook opening, uh, their general store, for example, and kind of promoting that online while having a retail component for people to come and buy specialty goods and whatnot. So a couple of, a couple of different things there. 

Michael (19:36): So, do you have any tips for our listeners who are in the hospitality industry on how to get your attention and possibly be featured in one of your stories? Do you have any top do's and don'ts for pitching you. 

Dan (19:49): I think there's, there's no one right way to get the attention of a journalist like myself.

And I think a lot of it is sometimes timing and luck as well because we receive such a high volume of emails. It's never our intention to not answer someone or, you know, disregard any specific pitch. It's more like we're so pressed for time and we're trying to sift through this massive inbox and get to the things that make sense for us. So making our job easier by being clear about what the subject matter is, and also a little bit of persistence, honestly, it's not going to be, it probably won't be the first time, you know, it'll be pitching over and over again and kind of going for it. I think, um, I tend to, when I see the same name, come up over and over again, I will think, oh, well, maybe I should check it out. Also being in community with writers, I think is important. Um, and I think a lot of people have recognized that I've tried to bring a kind of representation element to my writing and kind of an inclusivity element to my writing and so who are aligned with me on that level, kind of get an automatic access to me because I already know that our values are aligned and so I'm predisposed to want to hear what they have to say. 

Hanna (21:16): We call that a podcast Hospitality Forward because we know our industry will bounce back stronger than ever. So can you tell us if there's anyone or any organization that is doing something really special and you think is moving hospitality forward?

Dan (21:37): Um, can I say Hanna Lee PR?

Hanna (21:41): Yes, please. Thank you very much. 

Dan (21:44): I would say, and, and not, not to kind of suck up to you, but I think that Hanna Lee Communications has been such a strong community building organization from everything you do from the Clubhouse talks to this podcast as kind of a service to the, to the industry, I think is incredible.

Hanna (22:00): Thank you.

Dan (22:03): Um, another person that I think is moving hospitality forward is Ashtin Berry, and I know she's taking a break right now from radical exchange but that organization is so phenomenal in what she's doing in terms of educating people in a very grassroots way, in a kind of getting people to re-examine their own relationship, their own personal relationship with hospitality is something very admirable.

Hanna (22:27): Yeah, she was acknowledged by the World's 50 Best Bars as one of the most personality who made a huge contribution to our community. So yes, uh, we hundred percent agree. 

Michael (22:43): All right. And now for the listener question, segments of our show, uh, we have a question from Sheila Darcy Hinz of Clifton Dry, a new sparkling wine. And Sheila would like to know the protocols for sending product samples to journalists like you and in addition, what are the protocols for following up once samples are sent? 

Dan (23:04): So I don't think that's necessarily changed during COVID the best way is to say you know, sample for you and kind of ask for a journalist address. Once you have their address and you're sending them a product you can reasonably expect that, um, they might, they'll answer you after they've received an after they've tried it, or you might see it pop up in a story so you'd have to keep your eyes peeled.

Hanna (23:26): When it comes to follow up. How many times is it okay to follow up on the samples?

Dan (23:32): Um, I won't answer for any other journalists, but I will say like two or three times is pretty good. And if you don't hear back, there might be a good reason for it. 

Michael (23:46): Okay.

Hanna (23:46): Great.

Hanna (24:23): Dan knows best. It's always so inspiring to chat with Dan. 

Michael (24:27): Now that you know what Dan is looking for, please feel free to pitch him your story ideas. And of course mentioned that you heard him on our podcast. 

Hanna (24:37): We have a lot of exciting media guests in the pipeline as well. So please subscribe on Apple podcast, Spotify, iHeartRadio, Google podcast, or your favorite podcast app.

Michael (24:51): Please leave a review and tell your friends and colleagues. See you next week.

Hanna (24:56): Until then, join us as we move hospitality forward, together.