Episode #33 - Noah Rothbaum, The Daily Beast
Hanna (01:36): Hi, Noah. Thanks for joining us.
Michael (01:38): So great to see you.
Noah (01:39): Oh, it's my pleasure. Thanks for having me on.
Michael (01:41): Absolutely. So for our listeners, Noah, can you tell us what makes a Daily Beast story, a Daily Beast story?
Noah (01:49): Yeah. I mean that's a great question. Uh, you know, I think that, you know, we're, we're all about, um, intersections, right? So, for Half Full that's really kind of the intersection of cocktails and drink and food with larger society and culture and. We don't rank or rate whiskeys. We don't do listicles usually. Um, you know, it's not the sort of standard cocktail and drink articles. And obviously there's nothing wrong with that, but there are a lot of places doing that. And you know, for us, it's, it's really, you know, often the story behind the story, like we like to go a little bit deeper, um, question things that a lot of people have. Yeah, just sort of accepted as fact or as history. Um, you know, it tells some of the stories that have never been told. Um, you know, some of my favorite stories are the ones where we go beyond, you know, the things just accepting truth within and find, you know, a whole new thread and yarn and story to tell.
Hanna (02:50): You’re the Editor of Half Full at Daily Beast. So, how did you come up with a name?
Noah (02:56): It's a good question. I mean, it's, um, you know, I came on board The Daily Beast, you know, it was one of these things that we had never had, like a dedicated drink and food section. So, I certainly covered, you know, drinks and food in the past but had never had a dedicated section. We launched at Tales of the Cocktail in, uh, I guess 2016, like July of 2016. And at the time we were sort of called Drink and Food. Um, and then like, you know, I guess about a year later or so we, you know, came up, we felt like we needed something a little bit like more distinctive than just Drink and Food and we needed to tell people like what we were, um, you know, a lot of the great names have been taken. So, you know, you start thinking about all of, you know, of course everything at first that you come up with, somebody else's come up with, right, and you know, we're sitting around and a colleague Leah Doyle, who runs the business side of Half Full.
We came up with the name and it was the one that kind of worked for everything um, and, you know, we didn't want to pigeonhole ourselves, like just about cocktails or whiskey or rum or spirits. So like we wanted something that was a little bit more broad and sort of slightly optimistic, obviously, you know, it's not Half Empty. Um, it's really different type of site. Um, we, the, the name is it fit and, uh, I have a constant, uh, disagreement with, um, Mimi Sheridan, who's the legendary New York Times food critic, you know, for years and Mimi, um, was, you know, one of our first columnists and is still writes for us on occasion and, um, still doesn't love the name Half Full.
Hanna (05:02): You can’t please everyone.
Michael (05:03): You can’t please everyone, no.
Noah (05:04): and still gives me still gives me grief over it and still we'll change it. But I think at this point, hopefully it's probably to past where we can change it. So, uh, for better or worse.
Michael (05:14): I think it's a keeper.
Noah (05:16): Yeah. I would hope so.
Michael (05:19): You all work with a lot of influential writers like Dave Wondrich, like Wayne Curtis, like Lew Bryson. So who gets to contribute to the section?
Noah (05:29): Yeah, I mean, well, I mean, Dave, you know, now only writes for half full, right? So this is this, this is his only gig we were able to convince him to leave Esquire, which was a major coup, and, and, you know, the Beast and Half Full, you know, we really celebrate long form journalism and which is really a rarity. And you had all these people, you know, um, who claimed to be, you know, media experts, you know, talking about how, you know, long form journalism was dead and nobody cared about that stuff and they're like, you know, surely nobody would read these types of articles on their phone. You know, it was all about listicles and short stuff that could be, you know, processed. And, and to be honest, I mean, it's hilarious because. We did exactly the opposite of all of that advice.
And some of our most successful stories have been some of the longest ones where Dave will write, you know, like a 20,000 word piece about the history of Old Overholt and like, you know, right, whiskey, it proves like that that was completely wrong. I mean, thank God. I mean, really that, um, that people really are interested in long form journalism. So over the years, it's sort of, you know, as writers, you know, have more or less time as they're working on different projects, you know, we'll get pieces, you know, and you know, it comes up and I'm always looking for a good story, you know, and it's, you know, it's one of these things. Like we had a great piece from Earl Greer who, who owns a Highlife that, um, restaurant on the Upper West Side.
Michael (07:00): We know it well.
Hanna (07:02): We’ve gone there a million times.
Noah (07:04): Yeah. He's a great guy. And he had, um, he was telling me a story about how he used to run this restaurant, um, in the Ed Sullivan theater, when, when the Letterman show started and he opened, you know, he'd got, he was able to get the space and he hired a chef and then the chef quit and he had to hire another guy. And the guy he hired was named Anthony Bourdain.
Michael (07:25):Oh my goodness.
Noah (07:26): And that was like, so I was like, Earl, you gotta write this story for us. Like, this is incredible. Like you, like, not that many people, like, you know, could talk about what Bourdain was like, you know, before he was Anthony Bourdain and all camps and famous, like he was Tony, the chef to you, like, like you gotta write. So, I mean, it's good stories. I mean, you know, I like to say often, like our writers are you know, the types of people that, uh, you know, they're experts or the types of people that other journalists call to get quotes. So like, you know, uh, you know, which makes it kind of hard, you know, for other writers to write for us, because it's like, you know, if you're going to write about Punch, like, obviously like then Dave is just going to write about Punch. Like, I mean, he's the expert on punch.
Michael (08:14): He wrote the book on the subject.
Noah (08:15): He literally wrote the book. So, I mean, it's, you know, you, we have, you know, some of literally the greatest whiskey experts in the world writing for us. So again, it becomes hard to break in, you know, about a lot of the normal sort of subjects because, you know, we've either written about them or, or like, you know, a lot of the people you call are already like Half Full contributors to it, but that doesn't mean, I mean, uh, you know, again, if it, if it's a really good idea and it's a story that hasn't been told, uh, you know, I'm up for it.
Hanna (08:50): Speaking of drinking, uh, one of our favorite Half Full columns is Going 10 Rounds With. So how do you choose the people you want to feature?
Noah (09:01): You know, it's a fun story because we ask essentially the same questions roughly to like basically every subject. And often they're like, they're fairly straightforward questions, but some of the simplest questions often elicit the most interesting responses, right, and obviously we're, we're not. I'd like to say that I came up with this idea, obviously a lot of publications do a similar interview feature, right, and I understand why, because you do get people like being very truthful and sometimes it elicits things that like I had never intended or expected and. You know, we have like a VIP version where we've done ones with Kyle MacLachlan and Paul Pierce, the basketball player.
Um, we've done, you know, ones with a whole range of chefs and bartenders and, um, sommeliers and it's kind of intrusive. We sort of run the gamut from, you know, the Andrew Zimmermans of the world, um, and the Carla Halls to folks who are, you know, opening up cocktail bars and sort of like farm-to-table restaurants all over America, right. You know, the only silver lining in this pandemic or one of the fuses that maybe we'll have a lot of new people coming into the industry with. New ideas who will want to open new establishments and have new energy and vitality and, you know, help reinvigorate and help everybody…
Michael (10:27): Absolutely.
Noah (10:27): … as an industry to come back and, uh, you know, and hopefully 10 Rounds will tell those stories. So, I mean, again, I, you know, I, I wish I, there was like a formula that said, like, you know, you have to have like so many seats in your restaurant or bar and you have to win so many awards. I mean, it's. You know, we want to mix, I mean, I think that's, what's really interesting about it is that it's, in some ways it's like, I mean, now it sounds boring and nobody will want to read it, but I would say almost kind of like a census, right, or a survey, right. Where the more people we get and, and the broader of, uh, you know, of a, of a survey, um, We can get the better, the better it is. Like that's, what's sort of fun about 10 Rounds is that, that kind of stuff bubbles up.
Michael (11:09):No question. And you brought up the topic of chefs and restaurants. So with restaurants slowly but surely reviving, uh, do you see your coverage expanding of the culinary sector?
Noah (11:20): Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think of all, I mean, you know at the beginning of the pandemic, it was, it was sort of hard figure out what, what we should write about or what people wanted to hear about. And, you know, at first it was a lot of about what was going on, like, and pieces for bartenders or chefs or people who worked in restaurants and bars and how they could get help and different funds that were being set up. And then, you know, we'll definitely cover the reopening.
And then obviously, you know, hopefully sooner than later, knock on wood to like return and you know, more, you know, I think, I mean, I'll speak for myself, but like, you know, I love to cook and I think my family, for the most part likes what I cook, but after like, a year plus of eating a lot of home cooking and even take out from like a 10 block radius, we're all pretty excited to like go a little bit farther a field and eat in restaurants, not in our neighborhood. Maybe in other countries or other boroughs, um, or other States. Right. I mean, so I think, uh, you know, I, I feel a little bit more optimism, and, and it's like, I think we're all very, very eager to like, get back to normalcy and even, like, you know, even my local diner. But I think part of it is just also like we, the reality is, is that we're not quite there yet. So I have to manage even my own expectations about it.
Noah (12:54): But like, you know, You know, I got a note the other day that my friends who live in New Orleans, you know, they're fully vaccinated and they were having brunch at Commander's Palace.
Noah (13:13): Like, I just, you know, the idea of, of being able to like, be in New Orleans again and go to Commander's Palace is just, sounds like heaven right about now.
Hanna (13:25): Yes, dreaming about it. Yeah. I mean, obviously with these, uh, reopening of the restaurants and bars and, um, you know, across the country, um, just a lot of chefs and bartenders who are probably looking for a way to be featured on Half Full or any other media outlets. So what are the top three things that our listeners should keep in mind when they're pitching you?
Noah (13:52): I mean, keep in mind that we get a lot of pictures, right? I mean, that's the nature of this business, right. And, and, um, I would like to say that I respond to everybody, but to be honest, the rate of pictures has outstripped the amount of time that I can reply to like pictures. But again, I think there are ways around like, you know, the traditional pitching model, right. Where you know, social media has really helped where, you know, following me or other, you know, regular Half Full contributors on Twitter or Instagram or other platforms, you know, because often like we'll follow you back, you know what I mean? Cause we're interested too about what people are doing and, and in some ways we're even more interested in markets outside of like New York, LA, and Chicago, we should get a lot of, for Miami get, get a lot of press. Right. So sometimes, I mean, that's a great way. I mean, also again, one of the other silver linings of the pandemic has been so much online events and programming, which has been actually wonderful.
And hopefully we'll continue where, you know, because it's online, you know, people from all over the country around the world can tune in and listen, you know, whether it's a podcast or a webinars and events for Tales or other people or whatever it is, which is great. And, and, and those things too, are kind of a place to be noticed. You keep showing up or you ask questions and, you know, you interject about what you're doing. Again, that's a place, you know, the bar is so high that you really have to be doing something that's interesting and new and different.
I mean, you look at it with craft distilleries and like, so many of the successful ones were like the first one in fill in the blank state since before prohibition. And part of it was just that they were so popular because it was such a mind boggling idea that like we could open up a distillery in our neighborhood or the state, and like that will reflect, you know, local values or culture. Like who wouldn't want to buy in. And now, like, you know, a lot of States, you know, you look at New York and I mean, there were dozens and dozens of distillers is wonderful and a lot of communities support their distilleries, but the stand out to get that kind of national, uh, claim, it takes more than just, it takes more than what it did 10, 15, certainly 20 years ago. So, I mean, again, I think you have to, you have to bear that in mind a little bit.
Hanna (16:27): Yeah. Yeah. So now let's move on to your podcast, Life Behind Bars that you co host with the one and only Dave Wondrich.
Noah (16:38): Yes.
Hanna (16:39): Yeah. So what was the inspiration for starting the podcast?
Noah (16:43): Obviously it's not about prison.
Hanna (16:47): I know.
Michael (16:48): Um, we, we love the title. You recently did a podcast about, uh, the Roaring Twenties.
Noah (16:54): Oh yeah.
Michael (16:54): And what they can teach us as we, you know, ease ourselves back to post pandemic life. So what, what do you predict is going to happen to bars and restaurants, uh, as restrictions begin to lift?
Noah (17:06): Dave and I kept hearing like, you're right. Like everybody keeps saying like, oh, this is going to be just like the roaring twenties. And to be honest, like, it is in some ways a perfect analogy, but also it's a very flawed one because, you know, you know, obviously the world was coming out of World War One and then, you know, the, um, the, the influenza outbreak, you know, it, something that was often kind of skipped over.
I mean, it's such a, there's so many. Um, or shattering, um, truly, you know, events, you know, in such a short amount of time that like, we don't really often talk about the Spanish flu. Um, but you know, the world is coming, you know, World War One, then the influenza, and then, you know, in America we had prohibition and the depression.
So, I mean, hopefully, you know, things go a little bit differently for us today. Um, after our pandemic is over that we won't be hit with a record setting depression and you know, and a bout with prohibition. But, um, I do think that similarly that like those restaurants and bars that are able to somehow hang on, which we should is really no small feat through the pandemic to the end. Once this is like over and by that, I mean, I guess we get herd immunity and most of the population is vaccinated that bars and restaurants will be busier than they'll ever have been before.
I mean, you will, there will not be enough. Alcohol, there will not be enough food. There will not be enough seats. There will not be enough bartenders. I mean, I think that's a real thing that we're starting to see in a lot of markets opening up now is that especially in the hospitality industry, we've seen a lot of, from what I hear now from bar owners, restaurant tours is that it's very, very hard to fill jobs to get to open it. So there will be a, there will be shortages, I mean that, and I mean, it will be like a crazy carnival, um, you know, uh, Mardi Gras, I mentioned in most cities and probably last a long time. I mean, hopefully, people really deserve it.
Michael (19:23): Let’s hope so.
Noah (19:23): Um, we all deserve a party and good food and drink after what we've all been through.
Hanna (19:29): Speaking of a good time, um, we call that a podcast Hospitality Forward, because we truly believe in the future of our industry and I think it's going to come back stronger than ever. So in your opinion, Noah, can you tell us if there's anyone or any organization that is doing great work that is moving hospitality forward?
Noah (19:54): Yeah, I mean, I, I think, you know, it's, it's been amazing to see how the hospitality industry has responded, you know, to the coronavirus and, you know, and, and really, you know, how people have stepped up and turned their restaurants and bars, you know, from literally feeding, the industry to their community, you know, whether it's, you know, down in Miami, Jaguar Sun, um, our friend, uh, Will Thompson and his partner, you know, really, you know, we're going out of their way to like, you know, kind of, turn the idea of like the family meal into a family meal for their community. Um, my old friend Ed Ridley in Kentucky in Louisville with his LEE initiative, it's been incredible. I mean, it's, it's, it's unbelievable that he's, you know, created, uh, a whole foundation about mentoring, but also like, you know, getting, you know, uh, again, mobilizing the, the hospitality industry in order to, you know, feed people in, in different areas.I mean, obviously, you know, José Andrés is incredible.
Hanna (21:02): Incredible.
Michael (21:04): He's a great humanitarian.
Noah (21:06): He really is. I mean, to be honest, yeah. I never really thought that I, it never occurred to me that we would need him in America. You know, we would never, I mean, it was inconceivable that we would have some kind of pandemic or, you know, natural disaster that would require him to do what he does here. And I mean, it's been amazing that, you know, what he's been able to do in America and organizing, you know, food pantries and feeding people. But, and, and, and so we're very sad that it came down to, you know, the hospitality industry to sort of reinvent itself. I, again, I never thought that it would come to that.
Michael (21:48): No question. And now for the listener questions, segments of our show, we have a question from Daniel Neeson and Adam Millman, founders of De-Nada Tequila, which is launching in New York and California. They ask in your opinion, what do you think the future holds for tequila overall? Especially the premium segments.
Noah (22:08): Ooh, that's a whole other episode of, uh, I mean, I think. Look, I mean, it's kind of amazing, when my first book that came out, The Business of Spirits, which came out in 2007.
Michael (22:24): Which is a great read.
Noah (22:24): Thank you. I mean, one of the most interesting changes with tequila because at the time, I mean, 07 wasn't that long ago, right? I mean, it's, you know, at the time that tequila. Brand ambassadors. The one thing that they had to contend with every time they did a tasting or event or somebody asking whether or not tequila came with a worm in it. Right. I haven't heard that question in a long time thankfully. But, but, you know, people would, you know, the only way that they would ever drink tequila was in Margaritas, frozen margaritas, right. Like neon green, frozen margarita, or like shot, you know, the, the salt and the squeeze of lime, you know, the whole, the hand thing. But you fast forward to today and you have, you know, several generations of adults now who grew up in a world where tequila had none of that baggage, right? None of those misconceptions, it's only seen as a premium or super premium spirit, right. There are all types of tequila cocktails. I think we still might be on the margarita, but instead of like the neon green frozen margarita, we're now on like, you know, the Tommy's Margarita, you know, the Paloma, the Cadillac Margarita. I mean, there's all of these, so many other tequila drinks...
Michael (23:48): And they're showing off better spirits,
Noah (23:48): Right? I mean, it's, it's literally so long since somebody has offered me the shot with the salt in the line that I couldn't, I literally had a, I was writing an article and I referenced it and I literally had to call somebody to double check what the order was because I haven't done it in, so thankfully I'm not asking for it to return, but like, but it's just a whole other world. So, and to be honest, I think we're still scratching the surface for agave spirits, right. For both tequila and mezcal. We'll see. Ever more, hopefully cranks made with tequila. Um, you know, we'll see more recipes, we'll see a wider variety of different, you know, agave based spirits, you know, on shelves that will just continue to happen.