Episode #34 - Sean Flynn, Departures

Hanna (1:31): Hi, Sean. Welcome to the show!

Michael (1:32): So wonderful to have you on.

Sean (1:32): Thanks so much for having me. I appreciate it. 

Michael (1:38): Absolutely. It's our pleasure. So, Sean, why don't you tell us about Departures and what sets it apart from other travel publications? 

Sean (1:32): For sure. Um, so, you know, I've been in the industry for probably about 15 years writing for a bunch of different travel publications. And when I came on to Departures about three years ago, what made me like it so much is that it's so unique. It's, uh, it's unique because we get to tell stories that a lot of other brands are not going to tell, you know, we're much more niche. You know, you have larger publications that kind of cover anything and everything travel. But for us, we really focus on luxury travel, but then also super unique experiences, things that you won't be able to find really anywhere else. Um, on top of all that, we also cover a lot of lifestyle things. So we do wine and spirits. We do food, we do architecture and real estate. So we kind of kind of cover the whole breadth of, of everything lifestyle.

Michael (2:30): So you, you have a very interesting title, you’re Deputy Digital Editor. So what exactly does that mean? What does that entail?

Sean (2:39): So on a day-to-day basis, I kind of do a little bit of everything. Um, you know, we publish about 10 stories on the digital side every day. I top edit all those stories. I work with my freelancers, probably about 30 or 40, on a regular basis. I help my writers kind of create ideas or tweak their stories a little bit. I then also do a lot of the long-term editorial planning. I do a lot of the budgeting. Um, so it's kind of a little bit of everything.

Hanna (3:12): So you've been in digital journalism for most of your career. How does digital journalism differ from traditional print journalism. And also what got you into digital?

Sean (3:20):Yes. So for me, I actually started out in print. Um, about 15 years ago, I was writing for the Buffalo News covering restaurant openings and print will always have a very special place in my heart. As I think many journalists will, will feel the same way, but I think when it comes to digital journalism. There's so many opportunities that you just can't get out of print journalism. You can tell so many different ways whether that's audio or video or through, you know, immersive kind of plugins that you have on your site. But then there's also kind of the social media side. You just have much more of an opportunity to kind of engage with your readers on a daily basis. And that's something that I really value.

Michael (4:00): So with the pandemic, how has your coverage of travel changed and what do you think the future looks like for travel writing overall, when you know, we've been prevented from traveling essentially? 

Sean (3:12): Yeah, so it was very interesting, you know, I wouldn't say overnight we had to change our editorial plan, but in a short period, we kind of had to reevaluate all the stories that we had on the deck. And that was stories going out for a couple of months. So on a very short timeline, we had to kind of rethink like, what is Departures going to be? So we thought, you know, people who like to travel, they love to experience travel, even if they can't get on a plane. So how are they going to experience travel at home? And I think that's really what kind of led to the boom of people making cocktails at home, people cooking more at home. So we started focusing on a lot of wine and spirits, food, home, and decor. And for us, it really exploded. Actually, we had some of our greatest traffic numbers in the last couple of months, just because people were so eager to get that experience, but they're still not ready to hop on a plane quite yet. 

I think in terms of how travel journalism will change, you know, I'm curious myself, honestly, because I think that in the immediate future, I think that as people get vaccinated, as people are ready to travel, as people are ready to travel safely, as people should, I'm not sure if people are going to jump into international trips quite yet.

I think that domestic travel is really going to skyrocket as it kind of has over the last few months, but I feel like there's kind of a split with travelers. People are going to be more cautious and kind of do more close to home trips. But there's people who, once they're vaccinated are going to be like, let's go anywhere.

I'm ready to go on this trip. I'm ready to hop on a plane for 20 hours and go to Singapore or Australia or wherever. So I myself, I'm kind of curious to see how travel journalism really shakes out over the next couple of years.

Hanna (5:58): I think definitely domestic travel is going to be back in the coming months.

Michael (6:01): Definitely. Yeah. People are going to take baby steps before they go long haul. No doubt. 

Sean (6:10): Yes. Yes. And you know, it's funny, I talked to a couple of friends of mine who are avid travelers and it is. Split down the middle, even for people who are regular travelers, they are just not ready to get on a plane quite yet, or get on a flight. But then some people are just totally ready. They've been, they've been stuck at home for almost a year over a year at this point, and they just want to go wherever they can and soak it up. 

Hanna (6:35): Yeah, we are. You got to go as well. So we are planning some of our domestic trips to Vermont, but also Kentucky and Knoxville in coming months. And then we're going to plan to fly to Mexico and a few other places. So. Yeah, domestic first and then international. That's our plan.

So at Departures, you work with a lot of freelance writers and we know some of them and they're all very nice. So, um, other than being very nice, what is the criteria for choosing them?

Sean (6:58): I feel very lucky to work with the writers that I do at Departures. Over my career and I've had the chance to work with some great writers, but I feel like it Departures in particular, I've really been able to kind of set up a great roster of people that I can rely on for really immaculate stories and great copy and really unique voices. So, you know, when I'm choosing writers I honestly feel like most of the time they kind of choose me. I feel like most of the pitches that I get, or most of the writers that I work with, they send pitches and we just kind of start off with one story and then. That way I can kind of gauge if their voice is right. Over the last three years, you know, we've worked with a lot of phenomenal writers, you know, Jonah flicker. And Tyler Zelenskyi is also a great spirits writer. Then I have a lot of phenomenal travel writers, too. You know, Laura is somebody who also, I believe was on your podcast and just so many different writers. Uh, Maya,  is somebody that I work with on a very regular basim, who's really phenomenal. And, uh, just overall, I just, I feel very blessed to work with the writers that I do.

Michael (8:27): So how does it normally work with freelance writers, do you normally assign stories to them or do they come pitch you story ideas? How does that work? 

Sean (8:35): I think in terms of when I start my relationship with the writer, most of the time, it's either through a referral from another Editor that I've worked with or it's from a direct pitch. Um, you know, when I'm getting pitches from writers, I do look to make sure that they've written for other big publications. Uh, that for me is not kind of why I choose somebody, it's more specific to the story that they’re presenting me. If I feel like they're the great voice for that story, if they had already done some of the legwork themselves, so I know that they're coming to me with like a really solid pitch then that I'll kind of start working with. But I think as I develop a relationship with a writer, as the time goes on, then I'll start kind of assigning them stories. If I, if I come up with one myself that I think would be great to be told by one of my writers, and that's, that's usually how I go.

Michael (9:30): Speaking of great stories, what's your approach to finding them? Are there any specific places you go to for inspiration? What's your secret magic?

Sean (9:40): Honestly, I like to listen and I like to read. I'm a talker myself. So it's a kind of a lesson in patience, but to listening to your surroundings and talking to people and hearing their stories, but then reading as many publications as you can just seeing what types of stories they're covering. If there are different angles that are really popping, you know. We also dive into analytics pretty heavily, and that kind of directs us to see what topics people are most focused on. And I can say at the beginning of the pandemic, we started seeing that home cocktails were going through the roof. I mean, people were so interested to learn because they wanted to go to their favorite bar or their favorite hotel or whatnot, but they couldn't. So they wanted to be able to do that at home. And that's kind of one area that we took and we can think, you know, the analytics for it to kind of point us in that direction. 

Hanna (10:35): Speaking of analytics, how do you use the social media for your stories?

Sean (10:40): Yeah, so, you know, I feel like there's kind of a two-pronged approach there. When I'm looking myself to cultivate sources or reach out to people from different angles or whatnot, I can use my personal social media. Um, usually Instagram, that's the one that I'm on, but I, I try to reach out to people that way, see what's popping, what's interesting, what's new. But then from more of like a brand perspective, we use social media at Departures and I think in a pretty unique way, you know, being a travel publication, it would be really easy to just kind of throw up a beautiful photo and write a short story and call it a day.

Well, we specifically use our Instagram account to kind of highlight almost mini stories. So there's a new hotel opening, a new restaurant opening. We'll obviously include a beautiful photo, but also a short caption about what's unique about it. Maybe a quick quote or something. So kind of like a mini news story. And then additionally to that, being a travel brand you get to use a lot of the more live or video components to it to highlight beautiful destinations or hotels or restaurants, bars and whatnot. And we've recently kicked off a series on Departures that is also going to be living on travel leisure as well that's called Sipping With. And it's an Instagram series that we're doing, where we meet with a bartender and they run through some of their favorite cocktails, how to make them, how to make them at home. How can you supplement some ingredients? And that's been really successful. We've been really happy with that so far.

Hanna (12:11): That sounds like a great way to connect with the consumers and visitors and through the top bartenders in the country. Love that idea. So now let's talk about another passion of yours. Photography.  And, um, you know, we noticed that through your, um, you know, social media channels that you took so many beautiful photos of your travel. So, do you have any advice for travel photographers who are hoping to be featured in travel media?

Sean (12:42): Yeah, I mean, honestly for me, I'm lucky enough to travel a lot, not right now, but generally speaking for my job. So I'm not really big on souvenirs for the most part. So when I go, I usually bring my camera and I take photos. That's kind of my souvenir. And because I usually pack very light, I don't have much room for souvenirs. So, you know, a great way to go. But for someone who is passionate about photography or wants to get into photography, honestly, the only advice I have is to just get out and shoot, shoot as much as possible, you know, to get better unless you practice. And I can tell you that when I first started, I was really bad and I continued for a while, but I loved it.

I think that, you know, go out and take photos of everything and anything. It helps you kind of figure out what your eye is, what your approach is. You know what you're really passionate about shooting, whether it's people or destinations or profiles or whatever. That's the best way to do it is just to get out and do it.

Hanna (13:48): Do you prefer them to send you an album of the photos that they capture from their trips? Or do you want them to send only one photo that can really exemplify their work?

Sean (13:57): So a lot of the writers that I work with do you take photos of on their own? And what they'll do is when they send me the pitch, they'll kind of clarify that, you know, I can shoot my own photography.

So when I commission a story, that's the way that I know. So we'll usually commission photos with a written story and we've got some really great people that can do that. So they usually will send over like a wee transfer file of all the images. But I think on the other side too, to kind of just get involved with genera travel journalism or photography is to get involved with social media. I think Instagram is the best way to do that. If you're taking great photos on your travels, let's say you haven't really broken into the space yet, I think trying to engage with certain brands, particularly in this case, Departures, please, is really great for people to kind of like tag us in their posts or comment, or just kind of engage with us. That's the best way to kind of get on our radar. 

Hanna (14:55): Great idea. Tagging strategy. There's a very important.

Michael (14:58): Looking at the technology side, do you think iPhone photography is really democratizing photojournalism in the travel space? Do you think people can submit iPhone photos now? Where, where do you think that stands?

Sean (14:58): You know, I, I think, I think there's a space for it. I think for stories that we publish on our site, we do still try to stick with photos that are shot on a DSLR. You generally get just a clearer shot and I'm personally a little bit biased to it because that's how I started shooting. But I think when it comes to social media, being another outlet for us to tell stories, I think that that's a really great space to do it.

A lot of the series that we shoot, for instance, Sipping With, we shoot a lot of that on an iPhone, honestly, because we're going into a restaurant or a bar. And there's not a lot of space, frankly, to like set up all this equipment. So you have this tiny little window and an iPhone does a really good job and you can hook some equipment to it and it’s great.

Hanna (16:04): Absolutely. And I have a iPhone 12 and the photo quality is incredible. So now, let’s talk about pitching. For 2021, looking ahead, what type of topics do you think travel writers will be focusing on. 

Sean (16:12): Obviously the last year has been incredibly hard for the hospitality industry. There's so many people that rely on the industry for their livelihood. And from an editor's perspective I really want to know about people's personal stories. I want to know about how they've been able to really transform the space or what have they learned over the last couple of months that they can implement long-term.

I think from a more basic perspective, you know, what we had talked about is whether or not people will be ready to hop on a long flight to go to an international destination. So is domestic travel going to be really popping over the next couple of months? Or are people are going to be ready to hop on, you know, take that bucket list trip that they'd been planning for so long and just go and do it because it's, they don't know when they'll be able to do it again. I think that's really kind of, you know, what, what I expect for the next couple of months.

Hanna (17:22): When you feel safe traveling again, or where will you go to first and why? 

Sean (17:28): So I actually am fully vaccinated and, uh, I'm actually flying to Mexico for work for about two and a half days, which I'm very excited about. I'm excited to be in a warm, warm place. So I'll be staying at The One&Only Mandarina for a few days. Um, but I will say long-term, you know, I think it was last May I was supposed to go to Ireland and I'm working on a personal project, focused on, uh, Irish cocktails. It's a book that I've been working on for a little while. So as soon as I have the opportunity, I'd really love to get to Ireland and go to those bars and go to those restaurants, uh, and work very hard while having some really great drinks.

Michael (18:14): Yeah. Well, Ireland is one of our favorite travel destinations and, uh, the drinking scene is pretty darn good.

Hanna (18:14): Yeah. And especially a cocktail culture. It’s been going on for years and I think you won't have any problem finding good cocktail places in Ireland. 

Sean (18:29): Well, thank you. I started to research a couple of years ago, honestly. And it's been a project that I've had on the back burner for a while. But I've been talking to a lot of hotels, like really luxury hotels that have really storied bars and phenomenal cocktail menus, and top class mixologists. But then I've also been going to a lot of the tried and true bars around the country. And I've been to Ireland a couple of times and speaking with these bartenders, there's so much history that’s really not spoken about and that's what I've been diving into, so I personally am very ready to get on the ground and start reporting with a drink in hand.

Hanna (19:05): Yeah, that sounds like a plan. And congratulations on your upcoming book project. That's fascinating. 

Michael (19:19): So as you know the name of our podcast is Hospitality Forward. So, could you tell us if there's anyone or any organization doing something special that you think is moving hospitality and travel forward?

Sean (19:29): Yeah. You know, one project that I really wanted to call out is a Kristin Studeman put together at the beginning of the pandemic, a recipe book called Serving New York. And it focused on recipes from top New York City restaurants and chefs and whatnot. And 100% of the proceeds went to ROAR which is the Relief Opportunities for All Restaurants, it provided cash assistance for New York city restaurant workers, because obviously, you know, the city shut down and at the beginning had a much more difficult time than pretty much any place in the country. And I thought that one, it's actually a phenomenal recipe book. Daniel Boulud participated and he has like a really great recipe for Madeleine cookies, which are really great. There's so many really great recipes that are throughout it. And I just thought that was a really awesome project to do, to help people out.

Hanna (20:27): That's beautiful. So before you go what's the best way for our listeners to contact you, to pitch their stories. Because as you know, our bartenders and chefs and hoteliers, who don't have PR agencies, but they have a great story to share, so we want to help them out. So what's the secret?

Hanna (20:47): Yeah, honestly, I'd like to help them out too. I mean that's honestly how I've come across some of my better stories. From places that don't have the finances to kind of bring their name to the forefront because you get stories that nobody else is telling. So I think for me, the best way to contact me is probably on Instagram.