Episode #36 - Christopher Cameron, New York Post

Hanna (1:19): Hi, Chris. Thanks for joining us.

Michael (1:22): So great to see you.

Chris (1:23): Hi guys. Good to be here. 

Michael (1:24): So Chris, The New York Post is the oldest continuously published newspaper in the US and it was actually founded by Alexander Hamilton in 1801. How would you say it's evolved over the years, especially during the pandemic?

Chris (1:38): I would say during the pandemic, we very fortunately kept doing what I think we do best, which is telling really strong New York stories. Uh, obviously, you know, we lost great people during that time and, uh, everybody's pulling double or even triple duty sometimes. Um, you know, I contribute to other sections very frequently. Other people contribute to my sections. I help people edit. We're all having to sort of carry extra weight, but, um, I think that it's actually been a really good success story. We've had incredible impact over the last year and better numbers than ever.

Hanna (2:04): So for our listeners, can you explain what makes a New York Post story a New York Post story? 

Chris (2:25): Absolutely. In fact, what I love about that question is that every New Yorker intuitively knows the answer to it because the New York Post has such a strong voice. Um, but in a New York Post story is a big headline. It gets straight to the point and it has a lot of humor. It also tells the stories of New Yorkers. You know, we're not an industry publication where, uh, we're a local news publication with national impact. And I think that what makes our stories stand out is just that, that punch that eyebrow raising element.

Michael (3:01): Yeah. It definitely gets your attention. So would you say the, uh, the post is planning more hospitality and travel coverage moving forward? 

Chris (3:10): Yeah, I mean, I think that we have to. So much is changing and the changes in hospitality are changing the way New Yorkers live. And, um, I think that those are essential stories that we have to be writing features about, especially when we lost our dedicated weekly travel section some years ago, uh for business reasons essentially. But, um, we have been getting more and more special sections that are these beautiful, large dedicated. Sections just for travel and covering hotels. Um, and, and in our weekly features pages. We are dedicating a lot of space to the bar industry because. It's changing faster than it's ever changed, right?

Hanna (3:57): We appreciate you guys doing such a great work for our industry and really spotlighting people and the businesses that deserve the spotlight.

Michael (4:07): And they need it now more than ever for sure. 

Chris (4:09): They definitely do.

Hanna (4:10): The New York Post is well-regarded in both print and online. So what makes a story better for print versus online and vice versa, is there an overlap?

Chris (4:21): I mean, there's of course an overlap, everything that runs in print runs online, but what is in print is often, um, a more curated version of what is online. Uh, those stories tend to be more reported. A little more in depth. Um, and they're a little more contextual, um, in terms of what else is running in the paper that day. Cause you know, we have two editions a day and we're thinking about, you know, how does this story fit in with everything else we've got right now? And you know, for me, like I have three pages a week that I need to fill every single week and I'm planning those stories, you know, maybe a week in advance. And, uh, making sure that everything sort of lives together harmoniously and that the reporting is really good. There's also a visual element to print, right? Where a picture paper, the pictures often tell the stories. The photography is mostly photography. We are shooting, um, online. We are mostly using art provided by our sources or, um, you know, what we call handout art and. What I tell people when they're pitching me an online story is why are we telling this story now? Why? What's the reason? What's the reason to be telling this story versus another story? If New York City is as good of a city, as I like to imagine it is, I'd like to think that everything is happening at all times. There's nothing that's not happening. And why am I telling this one particular story? And that can be for a lot of different reasons, but it definitely needs to have. Impact, it needs to speak to broader culture. It needs to be advancing a narrative that is happening right now.

Hanna (6:13): So you mentioned that you write three pages a week. So where do you find the inspiration for different stories? 

Chris (6:21): Yeah. Well, I talked to a lot of different people and the more people you talk to the better, but you know, I, I get pitched I'm, you know, I'm a desk editor. I talk to freelancers. I talk to sources, I talk to industry insiders and I'm looking for stories that are going to really make people, uh, excited and surprised and get people talking. We call them talkers, you know? Um, and that's really what I want to see in the paper. That's what I would fill the paper with stories that are gonna make New York City talk the next day. Um, and I get, I get those from every direction I can get them from. And it's a lot of digging actually. Um, you know, I would say I only take one in a hundred pitches for the paper.

Michael (7:13): Wow. You've been a writer for many years now covering a variety of topics, especially real estate and travel. So how has your perspective evolved on how you approach a story? 

Chris (7:24): The biggest change for me happened, I mean, I was, I spent the first seven years of my career as a features reporter. And I did, I did some news early on. I was a news reporter when I was a cop, I guess, but I, um, really started looking at things differently when I became an editor primarily, mostly because you start to see the big picture of stories, you know. You start to think about how this story fits with all of the other coverage. How does this story advance the narrative? How does this story buck expectations? I used to have these little babies that were my stories that I had dug up, my little scoops, you know, that I had gotten, it was delivering to an editor proudly. And I used to be so annoyed when I would get rejected. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. But I'm sitting on the other side of the desk.I started just having suddenly and reluctantly having sympathy with those. 

Hanna (8:25): That's sweet. As you know, um, lots of restaurants and bars and hotels are reopening along with the brand new openings in New York City, which is so exciting. And we are so happy for our industry and that you have a deep expertise in real estate, as Michael mentioned just now. So in your opinion, how is the real estate market impacting our hospitality industry? And what does the future look like?

Chris (8:54): You know, I'm so impressed everyone’s still even hanging on. It's actually such a, uh, a positive story, uh, in the end. But you know, when I, when the pandemic first hit, I was hearing from, um, from landlords, from attorneys, from tenants, all telling me, you know, oh, you know, no one's budging on my rent, I can't pay rent and no one's budging. I'm going to go underwater. I don't know what to do. I was hearing from attornies that, you know, uh, commercial landlords get together in a room and say, you know, we're not going to budge.

We're, we're, going to hold tight to these rents. I think that's fully turned around at this point. I'm hearing from, uh, from bar owners, from hotels, from, uh, tenants of all sorts. They're getting incredible discounts finally. And I'm hoping that that means the whole industry is going to flower that we're going to see a lot of new openings that we're going to see a lot of really, um, creative concepts, uh, popping up in New York soon, because I think people just realize that this empty space that we've seen for so long, isn't good for anybody it's not sustainable for a real estate perspective. It's a tough market. No, one's, you know, hugging each other and patting each other on the back. It's a bit cutthroat. There are sharks. But, um, this is a way for everybody to make a dollar. 

Michael (10:20): And you recently wrote a story on the reopening of Bemelmans Bar at the Carlyle Hotel.

Hanna (10:25): Which is one of our favorite local spots as well.

Michael (10:28): Absolutely. And you quoted one of the patrons is saying, right now, people don't want anything new. They want what they had. And do you think that sums up the tenor of the times for the foreseeable future?

Chris (10:40): Sure, absolutely. I was desperate to be in that bar again and I made sure I was there on opening night. That is just one of those nostalgic New York institutions that we've all missed. I mean, when I first moved to New York going to Bemelmans, going to the King Cole bar at the St. Regis, going to the Palm Court, going to the 21 Club, which fingers crossed will be reopening in a couple of years, the rumor mill tells me. But, um, you know, those places just, they define what New York was for me. 

And I was so excited to be back. I think that everybody in the city. Is desperate for those things to be back to, you know, live like iconic New York moments in iconic New York bars. Um, at the same time, I think New Yorkers are fickle. And I think that, you know, once everything is truly open again, which is happening very, very rapidly right now. That there'll be craving novelty in a heartbeat, and that they're going to be looking for the newest, the latest, the coolest, that's just how it works. 

Hanna (11:46): Exactly. As you know, um, there are a lot of experts in our industry, like chefs, bartenders, sommeliers and hoteliers  and many others. So in the coming months, are there any specific kinds of experts that you are looking to feature?

Chris (12:02): I use experts as a means to tell stories about regular people. Well, we're not an industry publication. Like I said, we tell stories about New Yorkers. We want to see what real New Yorkers are really doing. You know, X group of people are doing Y and that should be something that surprises or entertains or delights or shocks or horrifies you. And I use people like chefs to contextualize that, to tell me what they see their customers doing. And the best thing somebody in the industry can do for me is tell me what they see their customers doing.

I'm dying for stories about real people. I want to know about the guy who comes and sits at your bar every day. And what does he order? Has he been sitting there for 25 years ordering the same thing? I want stories about your customers. And I want you to tell me you'll be in the story because you're telling me about it. Um, I don't do a lot of just pure profiles unless you're, you know, an honest to God celebrity, but you know, short of that, you can get a lot of ink out of me by sharing what you're seeing every day and not being afraid to tell your own story and having a lot of voice about it. 

Michael (13:25): That's very refreshing. So how, what would you say is your criteria for profiling people? When, when you do the profiles?

Chris (13:35): If I'm going to profile someone who isn't a celebrity, it's somebody who's a real mover and shaker.

Who's somebody who is doing something that will redefine the city in a certain way that will change even a part of the city. I mean, it can be pretty niche. I mean, someone who is changing the nightlife scene in, you know, the lower east side or somebody who took a minor cocktail and put it on the stage. You know, somebody who's ahead of the curve and really setting a trend. If you're setting a trend, I want to know about it. You should tell me about it and tell me how you achieved that, what you did and whose, and who are the New Yorkers that are buying into that. 

Hanna (14:20): And not following the trend, but forcing the trend.

Chris (14:26): The best trend story is the one that bucks expectations. I get so many trends stories. You know, this is opening here. This is happening there. This is this. But really, I want to know about the upper east siders who are going for a drink in east New York. I want to know about how The Midori Sprite, uh, replaced Martini at an Upper East Side hotel bar. 

Hanna (14:53): Yeah. It would be quite interesting for sure.

Chris (14:58): You know, that's a better story, isn't it? 

Michael (15:01): So, in addition to profiles, what other kinds of stories you're going to be working on in the coming months that our listeners can be a part of? 

Chris (15:08): Well, I am inundated with reopening and opening stories. It's more than I can keep up with. Honestly I would love to cover a lot of these and a more in-depth way, but I've, I just don't have the space.

You know, a newspaper is a finite object. And I would love to see more, um, trend stories that go beyond, you know, this is reopening, this is back and that looks at the cause and effect of those reopenings. I want to see, you know, the Carlyle is back. What effect is that having on the neighborhood? Um, what's down the line? What are the ripples that that's setting off? And those are the stories I'm really looking for because there's so much of the same, so much reopening everyone's reopening in New York city at the exact same time. And what I'm looking for is what's going on down the river. 

Hanna (16:08): Fascinating. So now let's talk about travel. So when you are ready to travel overseas again with your lovely wife, Shivonne, which country will you visit first and why?

Chris (16:22): Well, I'm already planning a trip in the very near future. Um, I am a classic hotel junkie and I love nothing more than visiting a hotel that I've read about in books my entire life, and so I think we're going to head to Jamaica. Um, we're going to go on a little bit of a road trip and I'm going to. I’m going to visit Round Hill, Jamaica Inn, Golden Eye, check out some of the hotels that I've always enjoyed reading about the most, but have never actually gotten to visit. Um, and that that's actually probably defines a lot of the way I travel is trying to find those mythical iconic, universal places that everybody else wishes they were inside at that moment.

Michael (17:12): We, are the same way, we'd love to tag along. So maybe you can join me. We, we, can't not speak about social media given its importance. So how has it changed the way you do your job and do you ever use it to come up with story ideas or find sources? 

Chris (17:22): Yeah, absolutely. I have to admit that I sort of have an antipathy towards social media personally, but I do have an Instagram account. I used to find stories left and right. I have a few strategies. I look for, um, the people I want to write about, and if they're not on social media themselves. I often follow their friends. In fact, the best way to find out what the super rich are doing is to follow the wives of billionaires. Um, the, the husbands don't post, but their wives do. And, you know, if they're, you know, in Santo PEI or eating soup uptown, uh, um, and it often turns into great stories. Um, I think the shining example of how someone in the hospitality industry uses social media well is Keith McNally, the owner of Balthazar who has been posting up a storm lately and the press can't get enough of it. I know we can't. 

Hanna (18:21): What do you think it is? 

Chris (18:23):I think it's a mix of things. He tells a story about the about Balthazar’s and posts his customers. He gives every customer a card and lets them sort of write about their experience. And he posts those like crazy. He. Also oversharers. I mean, we love that, right. And he's not afraid to get a little negative and take his gloves off, which I find so refreshing. I think that a lot of people are scared to do anything negative ever. But it gets you just more publicity oftentimes, uh, is viewed with a great and Carter is the best example where he just banned Graydon Carter from his restaurant after, uh, reserving a table for 12 of being a no-show. I mean, that story made for tabloids made for headlines, and he's doing such a good job of getting an insane amount of press. Frankly, one restaurant in Soho that we would have covered one time and forgotten about. But yeah, I think that everyone should have, um, a strong voice and personality on Instagram that doesn't feel overly corporate, overly professional, that tells a story about what they're doing, that features their customers. Um, and that highlights, you know, what makes them special or different from every other bar hotel

Michael (19:46): That's right. Yeah. It's a great branding tool. 

Hanna (19:47): So what are the top things that our listeners should have keep in mind when pitching you? 

Chris (19:49): The biggest thing that I tell freelancers and publicists and anyone else who calls me is why should I be telling a story now? I said this earlier, but that's such an important question that people forget about. They think that, you know, just because they have this thing, they're pushing at this very moment, you know, that I might be interested in writing about it. But there are so many good stories to tell. I need to know why I should be telling this story at this moment. What's the time hook? Why does it, you know, why does it matter at this second? How does it fit into culture? How does it fit into what's happening in New York city and how does it reflect what people are doing right now? Uh, in the city.

The second thing I would say is to think a little bit, um, like a storyteller. I mean, think about who your heroes and villains are, what, what's the story you're trying to tell. And what's the strongest angle for that story. Uh, I mean, that's really my job and I'm not asking you to do my job, but thinking like a writer won't hurt anything. I would say the last thing is, uh, you know, to have a sense of humor. Um, I get so, so many ultra professional emails every single day, and there's nothing wrong with that, but I pay attention to the ones that make me laugh to the ones that are able to speak the way they really speak. I mean, that will get you so far in this business. That's an important tip. 

Hanna (21:31): You've got to have me on that part.

Michael (21:33): Absolutely. So we call our podcast Hospitality Forward because we truly believe in the future of our industry and we're so excited to see things moving in the right direction faster than we expected. So could you tell us if there's anyone or any organization that you think is doing really great work and is moving hospitality forward?

Chris (21:55): You know, I might say, as neutral as the Swiss on naming any one individual or organization. But what I would say is that I'd like to congratulate the entire industry in New York city for making the most sweeping innovation that we've seen in hundreds of years, which is getting bars out onto the street and that has radically changed the lives of New Yorkers. It's radically changed the way I live, everyone else. And it's wonderful. It's pleasant. It adds a new vibrancy to the city and that's hospitality forward. That's so much nicer than being cramped up and a little room. 

Hanna (22:40):I couldn't agree more. So before we go, what's the best way for our listeners to contact you, to pitch their stories? 

Chris (22:47): Call me. My number is (615) 830-0873. 

Hanna (22:51): Amazing. You sharing your phone number? Amazing. 

Chris (22:54): No, I would love for you to call me, text me. Tell me what's going on. I don't. I answer every single phone call. I get even horrible telemarketer calls, but no, I think that's part of the job.I want to talk to the most people I possibly can. Um, cause that's going to lead to the best stories and I want to the best stories on the page.

Michael (24:07): Alright. It's been great talking with you, Chris. Thank you so much for your time. Thanks so much, Chris Thank you so much. 

Chris (24;13): It was lovely chatting with you guys. Take care.

Hanna (24:15): Bye. 

Chris (24:16): All right, bye guys.

Hanna (24:21): Insightful, witty and wise, these words nicely sum up Chris.