Episode #40 - Will Price, Gear Patrol

Hanna (1:57): Hi Will, so great to see you! Welcome to the show.

Will (1:58): Thank you very much. I am. I'm pumped to be here.

Michael (2:01): Thank you. Pumped to have you.

Hanna (2:05): So let's talk about Gear Patrol. I love it because I think you guys are creating amazing content and that's one of the reasons we wanted to invite you to be on our show, because a lot of people actually ask if we can have somebody from the Gear Patrol and we're like, okay, for the hospitality industry, it's gotta be, Will!

Will (2:28): Thank you. I will do my best to represent my coworkers.

Hanna (2:31): How would you describe Gear Patrol and what do you cover? And who's the audience?

Will (2:40): All good questions and I think my answer has changed, uh, the longer I've worked with the magazine, but, um, I describe it as a, it's a publication. We have a website and print magazine for people who like nice products that work well, but are aren't necessarily sort of needlessly excessive. Um, they don't consider it necessarily a luxury publication, you know, like we may cover some subjects like that, but for the most part, uh, what we're about is vetting products, recommending products to people that are kind of like a step up from the everyday.

Um, most of our readers are men though. I wouldn't say it’s a men's magazine. We do have a sizable percentage of the audience women. So, and, uh, we cover everything, um, you know, uh, from cars to consumer technology, to fitness equipment. I dunno, hiking gear, obviously lots of booze mattresses, every, you know, if it's sort of a consumer product, then we probably have, uh, an expert on staff who's tested and reviewed, you know, dozens and dozens of versions.

Michael (3:41): So looking back, you joined Gear Patrol in 2018 as a Staff Writer, and now you're the Home and Drinks editor. So what exactly does that entail? And what does your day to day look like? 

Hanna (3:55): What a combo! Home and Drink. I love that.

Will (3:57):My boss calls it the great catch all. Um, because it's like, it's just everything that you use or that you play with that isn't directly connected to either technology or I guess, fitness or clothes, if it's in your house, and then we've sort of like tested, you know, what have you. So my day-to-day is, um, a mixture of, uh, kind of liaising with staff writers, as well as freelancers making sure, you know, the stories we're working on that are nearing publication are as insightful and concise and authoritative as they can be, while also sort of looking further into the future, what are the subjects that people are going to be searching around for, wanting answers for, wanting more information on, you know, a month from now two months from now, three months from now and so on. So a lot of it is sort of like balancing the present with, you know, the not so distant future. I guess if anyone who works in media now knows, you know, you're very rarely working on one thing.So first it's what's publishing tomorrow, then it's what's publishing in a month and then it's, you know, the magazine that's publishing in two months and so on and so forth. So the day-to-day is always just juggling priorities. You know, what, what really needs to be done today, and sometimes that's editing 10 or 11 stories for a print magazine. I have a number of little tiny sample whiskey bottles on the premises, so sometimes it might be sampling, you know, a dozen different whiskies to kind of think about review and rate and a guide. So every day is I would say dramatically different depending on who's screaming at me on slack or whatever. So that's part of the job I do like to be honest. Monotony does not go well with my brand. I kind of have to have this constant switching and stimulus. 

Hanna (5:43):Yeah. Just like a PR job it’s not the same. It's always different. So that excites me as well. So you write and you edit. For our audience, can you tell us the difference between a writer and an editor?

Will (5:55):Yeah, it's actually, um, it's one of those things that, uh, I think at face value, someone might say like, oh, like a writer writes and an editor edits. But for the most part, editors are, depending on your level of editor, I guess, you know, you'll write a fair amount as well. So I'm still writing a story or two per week I would say which may pale in comparison to our staff writers who are turning out, you know, much more than that.

The key differences is that I am focused on sort of formulating the strategy for, uh, my coverage area. So, you know, making sure that I have a handle on timeliness of stories. So for example, if my job is to cover products in the home and design space, I need to know if with fall coming around the corner, what kind of things are people really looking for in fall? The answer is, you know, people are typically searching more for whiskey already, they’re searching more for coffee makers, they're searching more for even things as small as, you know, wool blankets or something. So my job is to make sure that we have all the carriers that we should be covering covered, and that we're doing that in a way that is thoughtful.

I think my writers and freelance writers execute and they contribute a tonne to what we're doing as far as on the strategy as well. But my job is to make sure that that strategy is both working and also just, you know, executed at a high quality, I guess, kind of polished. 

Hanna (7:22):I have to say strategy is everything, but flawless execution, it’s even more important. So we are wearing both hats. Impressive. 

Michael (7:32):You mentioned a whiskey several times, and that is a subject that is close to our hearts. So what do you like most about covering spirits? 

Will (7:38):Yeah. It’s kinda hard to point at anything you don't like covering about it. It's sort of a, you know, whenever I tell people that it's part of my job they sort of go, like, how do you get paid for that? So, um, what I'd like most though is actually not, uh, the obvious, which I guess would just be access to a lot of quality spirits. What I like most about it is, um, that there is a, it's very much like a cultural thing that we consume. So unlike, for example, and and not disparage the name of these products, but unlike a stick vacuum story, or a comparison of different cutting boards, when you're talking whiskey or vodka or tequila, rum, or whatever, your preferred biases, I guess, uh, when you write stories in the space and when you read other people's stories or what have you, there's always conversations around them. People are constantly, whether it's bickering and arguing with you or, you know, or just talking about their favorites bottles or whatever, that aspect of this category is very intriguing to me, it's sort of an enthusiast-driven space, in a way that a lot of product writing isn't, you know. People always say that they're afraid of people getting mad at them on Twitter or Reddit or whatever about a story they're writing. But to me that's like the most exciting thing that can happen unless you've printed something false. But if they're just engaging with your story, like, that's, that's the ideal reaction, you know, having a story that hits so hard that people want to talk. 

Michael (9:03): Well whiskey lovers are definitely a passionate lot.

Will (9:03):Yeah. My email inbox is filled with them day in, day out, arguing, and it's all in good fun. It's you know, it's whiskey. It's not, uh, you know, we're not doctors or doing anything that's genuinely important. We're just talking about whiskey. The stakes are low, but I do like how intense the conversations are gonna be.

Hanna (9:19) Well, speaking of whiskies, one of my favorite sections of Gear Patrol is your Shelf Sleeper. So can you explain a little bit about it and how it came about?

Will (9:37):Especially in the booze space and I would almost say beyond as well, but, um, I find that there's a lot of, uh, a lot of praise and, um, talk is focused on like very, very, very pricey products, you know, the, the kind of the ultra premiums. And it's not just in the whiskey space, it's in every category, I think.

It was originally designed as a or thought of, I guess has, is it's almost just me ranting about like, oh, you know, well, this bottle everybody cares about and that's very expensive as good, but you can get something that's I think as good or better for, you know, half the price and very few people talk about it.

So it was almost just me being like a curmudgeon, you know, in our company's slack channel, just complaining that, you know, there's so much good stuff that doesn't get the light that doesn't get the light of day online. And then I realized like, oh, wait, I have a website. I can just publish these things and give them the light of day. So I sort of solved the issue I was complaining about, or at least I tried to. I publish them every couple of weeks. And typically highlights sort of, I guess you'd just call it under appreciated or undervalued bottles of whiskey. And, uh, our, our audience tends to react to it pretty well.

Michael (10:55): So how do you choose the particular spirits that you feature? What's, what's your process? What's your criteria? How do you become one of those featured?

Will (11:03): A lot of them come to mind immediately just from knowing the space. So the one that made me write the story actually was a bottle called Jack Daniel's Single Barrel Barrel Proof, which is a terrible name I have to say, but it's excellent, one of the best whiskeys you can buy, and I've never seen anybody write a thing about it. 

So I had a few kind of like that. Um, and then after that it was a combination of, you know, me, one kind of vetting certain bottles, like are people talking about this? So I'd go on. And I think this is important and for any any writer to kind of look around in the space and what we're, what communities are talking about.

So I’d check, uh, Twitter and I check, you know, Reddit's Bourbon, subreddit, or whiskey subreddits. I'd just kind of skim and look around and see, you know, like what are the things that everybody is constantly talking about and what are the things that maybe you're just popping every now and then, and then things that you never see a peep from. 

So I used a combination of, uh, bottles I know, and I'm also talking to, I have, uh, contacts with all sorts of people who know far more about a good whiskey than I do think people like, um, you know, Fred Minnick, who’s a big name in the space. There's a lot of reviewers, a guy named, Jay who goes by TAKE online. He's reviewed like thousands of different spirits. So that's typically how I do it. And, you know, occasionally I'll go through, I'll just walk through a liquor store myself and be like, huh, what's that? You know, buy a bottle and if it holds up to kind of the price point and other bottles around it on the shelf, then I'll consider it for the piece. 

Michael (12:41):So there is a maximum price point that you'll focus on?

Will (12:43):Yeah that's, uh, I guess I hadn't, I've never really thought about establishing one. I think the highest price we've done is probably in the sixties and that's higher than I would want to do, but I sort of in my brain was justified as like, this bottle if it were made by a different company, or if it had a different name would cost $200, or something like that. So it was still to me, a great value. Um, so as you know, there's been bottles as low as like $13, so we'll go as low as that. And I think I would go as high as, I don't know if there's like a specific number, but if I think something presents a great value and isn't really, um, receiving the attention that perhaps it deserves, whether it's from a big distillery or producer or a small one. Yeah, I think we'll go for it. I don't think very many spirits are good value above, you know, like $150 or $200. Some maybe, but very few on the shelf are. So I don't think I would go anywhere near those numbers. And, you know, I typically like to keep things on the budget side, because I think most people also like to keep things on the budget side.

Michael (13:54):When it comes to whiskey recommendations, there’s nobody better than Fred Minnick. He's such an amazing human being, first of all, but all things whiskey, I mean, excellent person. 

Michael (14:09):So gazing into your crystal ball. What new trends do you see arising in spirits and drinks overall in the coming months? 

Will (14:12):Yeah. This is always this is always a tough one for me to answer. So I think, um, one of the things that this isn't the direct answer to your specific question, but I'll get there, one of the things I think has been interesting to follow over the last couple of years and something I, I tracked and wrote a small piece on or email newsletter was, is sort of the rising cost. And I'm going to go back to whisky for a second, but the rising cost of, uh, of American Bourbon or Bourbon whiskey, um, And it's something that I think that, um, a lot of people sort of, uh, especially like sort of regular, more regular Bourbon drinkers, maybe tacitly understand, just sort of like, oh, well that bottle is, you know, $4 more than I remember it being or what have you. But, um, maybe don't understand the degree to which prices have risen over the past, uh, you know, decade and a half or frankly much longer than that, but they've sort of more dramatically risen in the last five to 10 years. What I found was interesting about it is I don't think, unlike I think the general reaction to be like, oh, the price is rising.

Like that's, you know, that's unfair to the consumer. What I think is interesting about this, this, uh, specific rise and why I keep pitching it is, uh, it's mostly because Bourbon whiskey was so undervalued for so many decades following, um, uh, well before and following prohibition. I mean, we're talking about, you know, 20 years ago, just as a very brief anecdote, 20 years ago, you could buy a bottle of whiskey that came from a barrel that had to sit around in a warehouse for 12 years, you know, before it was ever put in a bottle and ever, ever, uh, vetted and put it, you know, sent out and put on trucks and all these different logistical processes and finally arrived on the shelf and you could buy it for $25. 

The bottle I'm referring to is called Weller 12 year, which nowadays is far more expensive. But um, you know, 20 years ago and probably even more recent than that, you can get it for almost nothing. And that's just when you, when you compare that to something like Scotch, it wouldn't even be a conversation that you would not find a product like that around that price point. Well, you know, very rarely perhaps. Um, so that's something I find is fascinating to track and something that I think folks are starting to become keen to now and talking about more. It’s almost like a deserved price rise, which most people, including myself as a whiskey drinker, don't like to, you know, it doesn't feel great accepting that, but it also, it's sort of as a fact, when it comes to products. Quality takes a lot of money.

Hanna (16:52):Speaking of stories, you must get tons of email pitches, including, you know, from myself every day. So what type of pitches get your attention to say, this is interesting. I want to check it out. 

Will (17:00):Yeah, that's a good question. I get pitches from freelance writers, as well as, um, PR professionals such as yourself. Um, for me, what excites me are people who have clearly done the research and sort of built the story on more than cosmetic or something small. So, you know, they have all the relevant information as to who has, you know, experts I could talk to, um, you know, kind of like maybe research that's been done in the space. If it's something that's like maybe trend-based, you know, a link to a data that's been pulled together. Um, those are the kinds of pitches that get me thinking beyond just, maybe this could work or thinking beyond, uh, just, you know, uh, let me, let me think more about it and do my own research. If this is going to sound, um, this is going to sound vain or even lazy, but when, when pitches come in and then they've kind of done the, some of the legwork for you, um, you can then begin to think of the more creative side of the story. Um, things like, uh, I don't know, like, could we, or could we organize a custom illustration for the story? Could we do a big photo shoot? What other personalities could we bring into this? Could I make this a series of stories? That kind of thing. So, you know, I'd be lying if I didn't say most of the pitches I get just can be very soft and very, just like, okay, I get what you're pitching, but I'm, you know, I'm not, I'm not buying it so to speak. I'm lucky enough to, you know have developed a number of great relationships with folks in PR.

(Hanna 18:39): Great. So for those of who are ready to pitch you with all those insights and numbers and experts, do you have suggestions of the best way for our listeners to contact you?

Will (18:47):I've done Gear Patrol on podcasts before and I always have no issue leaving my email out there. I read every email I get and that's wprice@gearpatrol.com. I am always game for people to pitch me. That's if sometimes, sometimes I may, you know, if I don't reply immediately or reply a week later, don't fret. I'm obsessive about making sure that I've actually, I've read all my emails and making sure I'm up to date. Um, yeah, but now that you know what I'm looking for, um, and try to aim for something like that. And we can work together because those are the sort of pitches that I'm going to respond to most likely.

Michael (19:25):So which organization or person have you seen that's really innovating and moving hospitality forward. 

Will (19:30):Can I cheat and give you more than one? The first one is a guy named Kenji Lopez. He is an absolutely wonderful storyteller, teacher, everything. I highly recommend going into his YouTube channel if you want to learn how to cook really, really well, really, really easily. But I was going to specifically shout out one thing that I think is, um, kind of sadly, uh forward-thinking or innovative, but it's something he sort of is. I would say as a leader in his sort of, uh, this constant rejection of, uh, kind of macho chef culture, um, he talks about all the time in his videos, all the time in his books. He’s very much sort of against that, uh, hyper hyper kind of almost toxic masculinity in the kitchen space. We used to work, before college and during college, in kitchens and an ad for catering services. And that is such destructive work environment. So when people like him kind of talk about it, I think is really important. And he's also just an excellent person. 

My favorite publication is Punch. If you're, if you're interested in beer, wine, spirits, or if you're a journalist or, or press professional or whatever, whoever you are, a student, etc, they do such good cultural storytelling in the space.

I think I check it most days when I'm just, you know, um, having lunch or whatever, just to see if there's a story that's particularly interesting that I want to read. It's very thoughtful. I don’t take drinking seriously enough to write like really well done essays on the people in the products that kind of make this world tick. But they do. And I think it's awesome. 

And the last one is Fawn Weaver of Uncle Nearest whiskey. She’s taking a huge step forward. A black woman leading a surging whiskey brand is just a massive step forward for a category that has been. Frankly, it's been, it's been older and it's been wider for way too much of its history. And she's kind of just, she's put that brand on the map and I think it's super, super impressive. Um, and she's also just a wonderful person, just like those other, just like Kenji and the people at Punch.

(Hanna 22:10): So if you had to choose one cocktail to share with your closest friend, what would it be and why? I think I know the answer, something whiskey?

(Hanna 22:30): I sip and taste whiskey so much for work, but my favorite cocktails are mostly simpler. I really like agave spirits. Almost all my favorite cocktails or tequila or mezcal. So, um, and if you think about what's simple and what's, what's, uh, an agave spirit cocktail, I'm going to go with maybe the simplest and that is a Paloma.

A great cocktail is sort of something that makes me think or makes me remember things. It makes me think I should be somewhere, you know, on the beach with a piña colada or whatever, you know, a margarita you're in Mexico, or whatever it may be for you.

For me a Paloma is the essence of just a simple complex, but you know, again, it's, you know, the ingredient list is not long. I just, I think it's, I think it's absolutely delicious it's something that I will drink at both divey bars that aren't really, uh, aren't really doing anything super special or super serious with their cocktail program all the way up to places that, um, you know, are, are making like customized cubes and crazy stuff like that. I think it's a brilliant drink. And my second pick would probably be a whiskey drink, it would be a high ball. There's really nothing better than having a whiskey highball when you're in Tokyo. 

(Hanna 23:56): Oh my goodness. A hundred percent, hundred percent. Speaking of Tokyo and drinking Paloma at the beach, what would be your dream destination either for business trip or a pleasure and why?

(Hanna 24:08): I've, I've been lucky enough to travel, obviously before, before the pandemic landed but travel, um, to a number of places for work and the answer for work input I think would both be the same. It'd be Japan. Like I mentioned, I just, um, when I went there and I was obviously very excited to go. It was a trip, it was a Japanese whiskey trip. Um, and, uh, there's loads and loads of things I wanted to see and do.

And I got to see them and do them. But what I really, really fell in love with how, whether it's food or cocktail culture, almost everything within Japan itself is just so like thought out and planned and meticulous and specific. I had sort of thought of a whiskey highballs just sort of, you know, it's whiskey soda. It's not, it's basically just, you know, it's basically whiskey. And so it, it's very simple drink. It's just something that you drink when you’d like some whiskey, but you don't want to drink it on the rocks. But when you go to Japan, it's like an art form, you know? They do that with everything. It's not just just booze. And I just find that very engrossing. You don't even need to be in a creative field to feel it, but if you are in a creative field, I think it's just a place that's almost like intoxicating just to walk around and see what’s going on. I'm in love with it. 

(Hanna 25:40): Same here. We can’t wait to go back to Japan. There’s just so much cultural inspiration and the drink scene is so amazing. And speaking of Japanese, our first book just came out called the Japanese Art of the Cocktail and we will definitely get you a copy. 

(Michael 25:57): I co-authored it with a Masa from Katana Kitten. Everything you want to know about Japanese cocktails and spirits and bartending techniques and the whole culture that surrounds the various expressions, it's the precision and passion, everything, everything, the art that's right there.