Episode #49 - Kevin Sintumuang, Esquire
Hanna (2:30)
Hi, Stacey. Welcome to the show.
Michael (2:21)
Hi, Kevin, welcome to the show.
Hanna (2:23)
Thank you so much for joining us.
Kevin (2:25)
Hi, it's a pleasure to be here and good to see your faces as always.
Hanna (2:30)
Good to see you as well.
Michael (2:32)
Absolutely. So, Kevin, could you tell us how you got into journalism?
Kevin (2:35)
I always liked writing. And, uh, I was always encouraged to write from like, you know, a very young age, uh, I had a lot of great English teachers. And, um, so ultimately, I ended up going to school for writing. You know, I went to Johns Hopkins University, uh, in Baltimore.
Uh, initially I'd gone to sort of study poetry and then a wonderful English teacher I had at the time kind of pulled me over, uh, and just had, did like real talk with me. She was like, Kevin, you don't really need to study poetry to become a poet. And I was like, okay. Uh, and so I kind of just shifted into, um, into journalism and I loved, I just really love magazines. And I just, you know, did the internship thing while I was in college, I interned at Conde Nast traveler, I interned at GQ.
And that's kind of how I got my start. And then the nice thing with poetry is that it's like, definitely don't consider myself a poet at all, but it's sort of like with magazine writing, you have to pack so much information in such little space. So it's in a way, a lot of those poetry skills. I kind of use that kind of economy of words, uh, is, is super important with, uh, when it comes to magazine journalism.
Michael (3:53)
So you recently wrote a very moving first person essay for Esquire. Uh, you described growing up in New Jersey and working in your parents' Thai restaurant and your decision to pursue your own career path as a journalist, rather than joining the family business. And, you know, as the son of a hardworking immigrant father who wanted me to become a lawyer, I completely related to, uh, you know, the struggles there. So what prompted you to write the essay and, you know, do you see a memoir in the works? I mean, it was such a riveting read.
Kevin (4:23)
How that story came about was pretty interesting. You know, I have weekly check-ins with a lot of our staff and our editor in chief, uh, Michael Sebastian. And we were just kind of, I was just telling him about how I was spending more time with my parents during this COVID era for a number of reasons, I, you know, they were, they were still going into the restaurant and working, and I was kind of concerned about that.
So I wanted to be around them. I wanted to help them out at the restaurant, like back in the day. And he was like, oh, you used to work at a restaurant when you were a kid. I'm like, oh yeah. It's like, you know, since I was old enough to like wash dishes and then you know, w uh, I hit puberty pretty early and that's when I, I looked old enough, I became a waiter.
And, uh, and then I managed the restaurant before, you know, I was sent off to college, uh, for summer. And he was like, oh, he's like, whoa, that's a crazy story, man. And so he was like, you should write about it. And I was like, oh, really? You think that's that interesting? You know, I told other people the story.
And it's a very, I don't want to say typical, but it's, uh, other people have experienced the same thing, other immigrant families, whether it's like working in a bodega, working in a dry cleaner, uh, working at a restaurant, especially. Um, so like growing up where your parents worked was kind of part of this American experience, very American experience that wasn't really told. So we really kind of leaned into that.
And like you said, Michael, I think that the other kind of universal aspect of the story is the idea of like, do I do what my parents want me to do or do I become like, you know, the self-actualized person that they want me to become and do whatever I, you know, become a poet.
Right. Uh, but then there comes a point where it's like, you know, my parents were thinking about their legacy. WouldI like it better if Kevin had taken over the restaurant or where do I really want him to become a doctor or an economist of which I did not become, even though I went to Johns Hopkins.
Hanna (6:34)
Well, actually, my parents wanted me to be a professor at a university, but I didn't pursue that, you know, and I'm very happy where I am and now they are celebrating my journey as a public relations professional.
Kevin (6:49)
That's the thing you gotta, you gotta, you have to kind of, uh, I mean, this is just sounds, I just, I'm just filled with like hallmark platitudes here, but you kind of just have to follow your heart and not really care about sort of what other people think or want.
Hanna (7:03)
Yeah exactly. Now let's talk more about Esquire. So what should we know about it and what sets it apart from other men's interest publications?
Kevin (7:17)
Yeah, basically anything that affects men's lives, we're going to talk about it. That's anything from cars to style, to food and drink to, uh, health and wellness, um, to just like great stories that are worth telling.
We care about service journalism a lot, and we take it super, super seriously, whether that comes to style or sort of food and drink. As a reader, you, or when I tell, when you tell people like you're, you're a food and drink editor or, or, or a style editor, people think that it's like, it's just sort of all fun. It is fun.
Uh, but it is hard work and like deep research and passion. And I think that kind of comes across in the pages of Esquire. Uh, I hope that comes across because that's kind of like the secret sauce to everything.
Hanna (8:13)
Beautiful voice and passion. I love it. So after 88 years, how does Esquire stay relevant and engage the next generations?
Kevin (8:23)
I mean, it's the same thing that they, that I think we've always done. It's about having your kind of finger on the pulse of the culture. You know, there's a bunch of media pout platitudes about meeting the reader where they are, you know, so it's like, you know, engaging with them on social and on Facebook and Instagram, but it's also about sort of experiential things too.
Uh, we haven't been sort of been doing that in the past two years, but, uh, you know, getting into the events space, our taste of two cities events, where we have two chefs sort of collaborate on our best restaurants, collaborate and do a dinner, you know, that's, that's one way I could count as, as innovating, uh, where it's sort of, you know, beating the people that we're writing about in the pages.
Michael (9:04)
So what would you say makes an Esquire story, an Esquire story?
Kevin (9:09)
Oh, um, you know, uh, this is a lame answer, but you kind of know it when you see it. Let me tackle the question this way. Like what makes me say yes to a pitch and what makes you say no to it, right? I think it needs, it needs to have a very unique POV. It has to have interesting characters. I think that there needs to be sort of a surprising narrative that sort of will, uh, propel the story. And this is, I mean, that sounds more like what you would think of as an Esquire feature, but in many ways that's applicable to even the kind of service journalism that we do.
I think if you look at our best new restaurants list or best bars list, there's narrative in that, there are characters in that. And I think that's what makes those lists crackle in a way that, you know, other lists that you might find on the internet.
“If you look at our Best New Restaurants list or Best Bars list, there is narrative in that, there are characters in that. I think that's what makes those lists crackle.”
Hanna (9:58)
I can definitely see that in the stories. So can you tell our listeners how you became the culture and lifestyle director at Esquire and what it took to get there.
Kevin (10:11)
Isn’t that the most fancy sounding title you've ever heard? Um, I can't believe they said yes to that, you know, uh, basically what it means is that I cover everything except for sports and politics. You go into the idea of passion. I'm genuinely passionate about a lot of things, right.
And so I'm passionate about food and drink, about cars, about design, about hotels, about travel. Uh, hospitality in addition to music, uh, TV, movies, and, and men's lives, you know, uh, I like talking about becoming 40 as a man or 50 as a man. I love digging into the nuances of just being in this world.
Right. And that's yeah. And that's why I have this kind of weird job where I can write, you know, interview Zack Snyder or like Taika Waititi one day and then like talk to David Byrne another day. Or, you know, cultivate our best new restaurants and best bars lists, uh, a month later. Uh, and I love that because I really do enjoy talking to all these people and, uh, and, and telling their stories.
Michael (11:16)
Let's drill down a little bit more about the editorial process at Esquire. So from brainstorming concepts to greenlighting stories, how does the magic happen?
Kevin (11:26)
It's multiple ways, right? So it's like we receive a lot of pitches. Uh, I like to have a sort of small group of writers that I can kind of go to, to sort of cultivate and come up with ideas. Let's say something happens in the news and I want sort of a, an original take on it. We'll kind of workshop on an idea and come up with the right take. Um, a lot of ideas, a lot of magic happens just through kind of natural conversation. I've been in this business long enough to know that the best ideas happen, you know, just the, just casual conversation at the office or on Zoom or at the bar. Yeah.
Michael (12:08)
So you guys created a lot of buzz with the list of The Best New Restaurants in America, and like many folks we'd been waiting for the list all year. And I know you and the team worked tirelessly and literally traveled thousands of miles to spotlight these incredible restaurants. So could you walk us briefly through the process from start to finish, for example, you know, when did you start researching the list? When during the year did these visits take place? You know, what was it like negotiating a pandemic along the way?
Kevin (12:39)
The reporting honestly feels nonstop. I've been eating out like two or three times a week since the last list closed working on next year's list. You know, it's a, it appears in our winter issue, uh, it closes around sort of September timeframe.
Sometimes it goes into October. So, the big flurry of reporting happens probably in the summer. Although, this past September was super, super busy for us because we care. We care about the list. We want to cover as much ground as we can. And so we'll hear about places. Uh, at kind of the last minute. And so we'll go out to, um, to the cities.
You know, September we’re on the road. I'd probably say it like, you know, I was on the road probably 75% of those days, you know, it's that kind of final 10% that can make the list super special.
Michael (13:35)
So what's, what's the criteria for, including the restaurants on the list. What are you looking for?
Kevin (13:40)
I think the easy answer is it's a place that you want to tell everyone about. It's a place that you want to go back to. The, the sort of more complicated answer is, is this place sort of accomplishing what it's setting out to do and how well is it accomplishing that?
Right. Whether it's, you know, like a, uh, like a Cadence, whether it, whether it's, you know, an expression of soul food in like kind of a vegan manner, uh, whether it's a place like Ever that's about this kind of high wire, uh, culinary act.
And then it's, it's sort of, you know, like, like with anything else, you know, we're, we're looking for kind of compelling narratives and sort of awesome experiences that we think that our readers would be into. I mean, at the end of the day, I hope that people can go to all of the restaurants that are listening to have a good time.
It's very subjective. I mean, I mostly get notes saying that in agreement with stuff, but occasionally you'll get stuff that's in disagreement and that's okay. It's a subjective list. We have our you know, among the four people that reported this year, myself, Jeff Gordinier, Joshua David Stein and Omar Mamoon, the amount of like discussion and arguments that happen that we have over text is, is just, it's incredible, you know? Uh, but that's, that's what makes the list interesting. You know, the four of us have very similar tastes, but we also have, uh, very strong POV's as well.
Hanna (15:08)
I mean, I can definitely see the variety on the list and we are so excited to see our client Cadence on the list and not to mention, chef Shenarri Freeman, crowned Rising Star of the year.
We couldn't be happier and prouder. There was an incredible achievement for Ravi and Chef Shenarri.
Kevin (15:30)
Yeah. Yeah, no, it's wonderful. You know what Ravi has done with his mini empire and how they're all, uh, vegan. And I think Shenarri is doing really, uh, is such a gracious host and such a talented, talented cook and the fried lasagna dish. It is truly the stuff of dreams. It truly is.
Hanna (15:52)
This is the dish you want to go back to eat, but then you want to tell your friends about it.
Kevin (15:57)
Yes absolutely.
Michael (15:58)
So let's talk about something boozy, namely Esquire's Best Bars in America list. So what's the process for this list being compiled? And what are the criteria? Is it similar to the restaurant criteria? How does it work?
Hanna (16:10)
And what does the timeline look like?
Kevin (16:11)
Yeah. I’d say its a similar criteria. I think with best bars, I like to have, um, more contributors to it. I think it's just an opportunity to really have different points of view when it comes to sort of bars in America. Um, that's also something we report throughout the year and we try to have a good mix of new places. And that's, I think that's how the list is really different from the Best New Restaurants.
It's right there in the name of the franchise. It's new, best bars is just best bars and with best bars, we're just really trying. It's a little, um, it's subjective of course, but we're, you know, at the same time, uh, even though it's not like best new bars we are trying to capture the zeitgeist of what's happening in bars in America each year.
Hanna (16:59)
And I know everybody in our industry is like looking forward to that issue every year and including us.
Kevin (17:06)
Yeah. And we take that, you know, I mean, we take Best New Restaurants super seriously. We take the Best Bars just as seriously. You know, I think with the reporting for this last list, we hit the road in a pretty significant way towards the end, just to make sure that we could cover and make up for the time that we lost when, when places were closed.
Hanna (17:26)
Speaking of stories in 2022, what kind of stories will they be working on? And what is your lead time for prints as well as online?
Kevin (17:37)
Yeah, you know, I mean, online can be anything from, if there's something relevant to the day we can work on it and get it up in a few hours. Usually the stuff that I work on, uh, it's usually a few days to a few weeks, depending on the length and sort of ambition of the story, uh, for print in general, it's three months ahead of time. And that's, I think the way it is with most magazines these days, uh, but you know, we, we know that we need to be nimble. And so, um, some stuff we can, we can weave in and later periods in the production cycle. Uh, and I think that helps with trying to keep the magazine relevant while it's on newsstands.
Hanna (18:19)
With the hospitality and travel industry coming back, will you be expanding your coverage on both subjects of hospitality and travel?
Kevin (18:28)
Yes, we are indeed expanding our travel coverage in 2022. And so you'll see, um, travel coverage, um, monthly in prints. It'll take a while to sort of, um, get the engine started up, but you should start seeing it, uh, at least weekly, uh, on the site as well. You know, we'll have a big travel package in, uh, in April. Look at our April/May issue for a lot of fun travel stuff from us.
Hanna (18:55)
If someone has some really exciting food and drinks destination suggestions would they be able to pitch you within the next few weeks for your April issue?
Kevin (19:06)
Oh, absolutely. Yes. And you know, in addition to 2022, so we are doing, uh, well we always do, best bars and best restaurants. This next year will be our, uh, 40th Best New Restaurants. So we'll be celebrating that anniversary and doing something special with that. I think it's safe to tell everyone that we are working on a Best New Hotels list. And so that will be in our April/May issue. So if anyone has any recommendations for great new hotels, please, please do reach out.
Michael (19:38)
You guys do some great profile pieces. We really enjoyed the, uh, Kate Nelson story on chef Sean Sherman in Minneapolis. So what kind of folks do you look to spotlight?
Kevin (19:50)
During the pandemic, we had wonderful stories from Omar Tate. That was about how the government just wasn't really helping folks who were doing pop-ups or didn't have like a traditional brick and mortar restaurant. You know, we had a great essay as told to Sarah Rense who worked on it with Chef JJ Johnson with what he was doing, with field trip and helping hospitals and in community outreach. So we're looking, we're just looking for really compelling narratives that perhaps you're not seeing elsewhere. And, and especially with the food world. I think that we, you know, our bread and butter is, is more, I would say sort of the lists and the kind of service journalism aspect of food. But I think that we try to sort of lend our platform to voices in the community.
Hanna (20:44)
Taking us back to what you set up at, what makes an Esquire story, an Esquire story. You mentioned voice and passion. And I think these profile stories are exactly that. So now let's get practical. I know a lot of people, including our clients, dream of being in Esquire. What kind of advice can you give to our listeners who would like to pitch their stories?
Kevin (21:14)
I think you have to have a very well formed, uh, story. I like stories with a lot of heart. Um, I like humor too, you know, it's sort of the basic stuff in there needs to be a kind of beginning, middle and end. There needs to be something very compelling to it. There has to be universality to it, but also sort of a uniqueness as well. There needs to have that kind of crossover, so to speak.
I mean, that's very vague, but I think if you take sort of my sort of growing up in a family restaurant story, you know, it's very specific to me, but there's also universal, um, things that even if you're not like me, you can it'll affect you in a way.
Michael (21:57)
So we call our podcast hospitality because we're very upbeat about our industry. So what person or organization have you seen really innovating lately and moving hospitality and travel forward.
Kevin (22:11)
That's easy. It's Yannick Benjamin at Contento. And Contento is a restaurant/wine bar in Manhattan. And I believe it's in East Harlem. It's a wonderful space and, um, wonderful wine list.
Awesome food. But it's really, it's built around accessibility. Around wheelchair access or, or if blind. Um, Yannick is really at the forefront of making people in the hospitality industry think about what hospitality really means, because if someone shows up at your hotel at your restaurant or your bar who is in a wheelchair, or has a seeing eye dog, are they going to have a good experience?
Hanna (22:54)
I think it's such a thoughtfully curated restaurant, both concept, but also design. We gave a big applause to what he has created.
Kevin (23:03)
And Yannick is a wonderful gentleman. I mean, you can nerd out with wines for him for four hours too. So it's a really wonderful spot to hang out in.
Hanna (23:10)
You have traveled all over America this year. So what is your dream destination of abroad for business or personal and why?
Kevin (23:20)
I really want to go to Mexico City because, uh, I've never been. I'll tell you a secret. Not that it's not a secret though. I've never been to Mexico City. And whenever I tell people that I've never been to Mexico City, they're like what?
It's like, you would love Mexico city, Mexico city is all about you. And so I apparently I need to go there. Wonderful, uh, food culture there. So definitely one of us is there. But I'm, I'm really, uh, I want to go back to Thailand to visit my family. I haven't seen them in quite some time and I really love, I mean, this is kind of a cliche answer, but I really love Tokyo.
My credit card, uh, takes some heavy damage when I'm there. Because I spend most of my time in Tokyo eating, drinking, and shopping, I'd like to have some kind of new inspiration in addition to a new wardrobe.
Hanna (24:11)
We know you love cocktails, just like Michael and me. So if you had to choose one cocktail, what would it be? And with whom? And why?
Kevin (24:23)
Oh Gosh. I don't know. I have so many friends. If I can make friends with whoever's at the bar, I don't even need to bring someone. So, uh, I make, I make, I feel like I make very easy travel for instance. That's the thing. When you, when you kind of have to eat and drink for a living you, well, a lot of times you're just doing it alone. And so you just make quick and fast friends with whoever's at the bar.
So, uh, my best buddy is just sort of the general idea of a wonderful person at the bar that I can have a conversation with. And the bar would probably be, I don't know if this is the best, but this is the one that comes to mind. Uh, because I went there recently and it would be the, uh, the Juul Sazerac at Jewel of the South in New Orleans, because I don't know if you've this Sazerac before, but it is a mindblowing Sazeracs it's undiluted it's, it's like just chilled straight out of the bottle, kind of like the Duke's martini. And, um, it's a dangerous drink.
Hanna (25:19)
Yes it is.
Michael (25:20)
Very potent.
Kevin (25:22)
You only want one in that, that's going to be your Sazeracs for the day, you know, but it's, that's the wonderful thing about that drink is that it's so ice cold. Uh, and you can sit on it for an extended period of time and have a really wonderful conversation with someone.