Episode #5 Mark Ellwood, Condé Nast Traveler & Bloomberg's "Travel Genius" Podcast

Hanna (1:14) Hi Mark.  

Mark (1:15) Hi guys, how are you? 

Hanna (1:17) Good, good, thank you so much for joining us today.

Mark (1:19) Cool.

Michael (1:21) So we call our podcast “Hospitality Forward” because we’re optimistic about the hospitality and travel industry. So, based on your experience and what you’re observing and hearing, what steps should hotels and travel destinations be taking to move hospitality forward? 

Mark (1:39) Oh Michael, what a question. If I had the real answer to that it would be a million, wouldn’t it be a million-dollar plan; I could sell that, I could bottle it and sell it. I think, I think everyone right now realizes that we’re in a two steps forward, one step back kind of place and the way to move hospitality forward is flexibly.

I am the most anal, most planning-prone person you could ever imagine and I’m having to learn a new skill which is changing on a dime and realizing that every plan and every preparation might have to change. 

If you look at some destinations, Tahiti has done this brilliantly, essentially Tahiti has said, “we are reopening to tourists but if anything changes, anything you’ve paid for, any deposit, don’t worry; if your country locks down and you can’t come, you can postpone. If we lockdown and you can’t come, you can postpone, if anything happens, you can postpone.” And it is the embodiment of flexibility and I'm trying to do brain yoga to make myself more flexible. 

Hanna (2:43) You know what Mark, I’m going to join your club, because that’s what I need too. I am a planner, every minute of it and it drives me crazy.

Mark (2:52) I knew it, that’s why we’re friends. 

Hanna (2:54) Oh my god yes, flexibility is, that’s what we have to embrace. Alright so, to me, Mark, so you were born to be a traveler and a storyteller. So how have you been affected personally and also professionally by this pandemic? 

Mark (3:10) That’s a great question. I’m very lucky that personally, in terms of disease, I haven’t been hit very close to home at all and I feel very fortunate in that. In terms of the way my life has changed, it’s very surreal. I was in Germany for the first two weeks of March for an assignment. If you check out Robb Report’s August issue you’ll see my starvation spa assignment. 

I flew back on the 13th of March and I haven’t set foot on a plane since and that is the longest time I’ve not been at an airport since I left college and it is really, really strange. And I have to say and I know people hate airports. I love airports, I really miss the Delta Sky Club at JFK and when I get there for the next time I will metaphorically kiss the ground and say “it’s lovely to see you”.

Michael (4:02) So, in addition to writing, and you’re quite prolific, you’re a fellow podcaster and the host of Travel Genius on Bloomberg and you’re a frequent guest on The Today Show and other TV shows as a travel expert. So how has your day-to-day work pivoted? And what are the biggest changes that you’ve seen?

Mark (4:22) You know, it’s interesting because I think we’ve gone in phases. If you look at how travel editorial changed in the wake of the pandemic, immediately there was a collective gasp because travel and hospitality was most immediately impacted in terms of just being suspended. 

So I think the initial sense, there was a wonderful tweet from the travel editor at The Sunday Times in the UK basically saying, “Hey guys, we don’t know what we’re covering, you’ve got to bear with us, we’re just going to make it up as we go along, we are as confused as you are.” I think that transition next to solutions, an awful lot of travel editorial in the first two months was: I need to cancel my flights, what does this mean for me? I’ve got plans that I need to change and I spent a lot of time at Conde Nast Traveler writing stories about - what do you do with your imminent travel plan? 

Now I did a segment on CBS This Morning recently and it was essentially saying, “how do I go on vacation? I need it, I need some time off, but I don’t know how to do it because it feels complicated and also I feel a bit guilty”. And I think, this is always one of things I tell people all the time, hospitality and travel is the 7th largest private sector employer in America.

Going on vacation and taking time off is good for you but it’s also good for people's jobs. You’re not being innapropriate booking a vacation for a week because the woman making you that amazing Pina Colada, that you feel like “ah sitting by the pool is the best thing ever,” she’s paying her mortgage with the tips you give her. She’s working but it’s her job to not make you think she’s working cause that’s the key of hospitality and I think that's often why hospitality gets a really short shrift in this situation because it’s the job that pretends it’s not a job so people forget that they need to get paid. 

Michael (6:19) All right, so you’ve been very busy writing over the past several months. So for the remainder of 2020, What kinds of stories are you going to be working on? 

Mark (6:27) So that’s the question I think everyone wants to understand is what do we do for Q4? And I think there are two kinds of stories that are really, really looming, which is both the dream far ahead, plan now go later, what do I do for 2021? Giving people the chance to think about “I want to go to Mozambique,” “wow I want to go to the temples in India,” “I’ve always wanted to go to, to a Greek Island.” You can plan that for 2021, and you’re writing about that now with the understanding that it’s like, hey guys, we all know that right now it’s really complicated to do that, but you can dream. 

And then there is that very straight forward, I need a vacation, where can I go? How do I do it? What is the new reality? And you know for Robb Report, for example we’ve been covering bubble charters. A bubble charter is essentially, you charter a private jet or you charter a fractional jet and you buy out part of a hotel or a villa and you effectively only encounter a small amount of people on your journey and when you get there. And the staff remain the same and you are minimizing your exposure to other people. Now it’s pricey but certain resort destinations realize that’s a great way of bringing travelers back even if just at the 1% of the 1% it still gets people moving. 

Hanna (7:57) So Mark, so you’ve written so many articles for the past few months, from hotels to cocktails-to-go, you name it and for your upcoming stories as well. So how do you come up with the story ideas? I mean, do they come from pitches from people like us? From PR professionals? 

Mark (8:17) Of course they do. You know what I mean, it’s a combination, it’s a combination. You know, I read every email pitch I get, I don’t respond to them but I always read them cause they take peoples, as long as, here’s the thing, I don’t read them if it doesn’t say “Dear Mark” at the top, if the name is wrong then I feel like I don’t need to read it. 

Hanna (8:33) Good tip. 

Mark (8:34) I think that’s sort of a basic thing, I wouldn't open an envelope if it was addressed to someone else. But for example one of my favorite stories that I’ve done during the pandemic was I give Chris Lowder a full shoutout for this, Chris is a friend of mine who I’m sure a lot of listeners will know. He works in the booze business and lives in China; has lived in Asia for a long time. 

Hanna (8:52) Love him.

Mark (8:53)  He and his wife are expats who live in, have lived in Asia, and have a brilliant understanding of Asian culture. And Chris was posting about delivery cocktails in Shanghai and how they’d always been a thing in China because China always delivers everything in modern China. 

But in the lockdown, bars had taken to making delivery cocktails a wonderful sort of theatrical thing. And I just saw that on Facebook because I’m friends with Chris and I messaged him and said this is an amazing story.  Can you tell me about this, tell me the stories of how this works because maybe bar owners in America will see this and it might inspire them to kind of geek out a little bit of money when the Pandemic was really at its worst. 

And so you know I look at Facebook, it’s really about social media… is super helpful, PR people are super helpful and you know I read a lot of other magazines. I’m always surprised when journalists aren't someone with piles of magazines and loads of pocket articles and saved pockets saved on their apps because I thought if you love writing, you should love reading other people's writing and also it’s great for story ideas. 

Hanna (10:08) Amazing, amazing so I guess the social media is a very important part of your tools to find your story angles and story ideas?

Mark (10:13) It’s interesting because I'm, I think it’s a great way if you’re looking globally. Social media is global, especially Instagram, it doesn't require language. So if I’m looking for a story from India,  I’m going to look on Instagram and dig around a little bit and especially when I’m grounded it’s a great way. 

I was doing a story about Mozambique which is one of my favorite destinations in the world.  And I needed a little bit of intel over and above the reporting I’ve banked from a trip and where did I go? I went to Instagram, I looked up a few things, I DM’d a few people..that was my new way of researching it because I couldn’t go. 

Hanna (10:51) So do you use hashtags to search for the topics that you want to see? 

Mark (10:57) Mhm, very much so.

Hanna (10:58) Yeah.

Mark (10:59) I think…I think.. I’m a bit selfish when it comes to social media.  And I..my new resolution is to get better. But, I take a lot more from social media than I give and I go to Instagram, where I’ll post once in a while.. and you know if I find something super interesting… but Instagram is really a great source for me.   And I think you’re very good at this, understanding that social media, even personal social media will be followed by the regular media and combed over. 

Hanna (11:29) 100%.

Mark (11:30)  And it’s really not a waste of time to tag a few things on Instagram because actually it’s a work effort. Not just sure, post a cute picture of yourself, make sure you look amazing and face-tune the heck out of it. 

Hanna (11:46) Exactly.

Mark (11:47) Do the right tag.

Michael (11:49)  So what advice would you have to our listeners who are in hospitality and travel who want to share their insights and expertise with you? You know, especially those who may not be repped by a PR agency?

Mark (12:03) So the two simplest things I’d say. If you’re not a PR pro like you guys or a media person like me but you want to get a story out there, it’s all about personal stories. It’s about people. 

Tell me your story and then tell me a customer story. Talk to me about the users you have. If you want to tell a story of your bar, tell me about two of your regulars and how say during the pandemic they volunteered to help out with you and say here are the stories of our two regulars who helped out. 

If you own a little hotel, tell me the stories of the people who you let take refuge in your hotel during the pandemic and become temporary residents. Remember it’s really, really personal.

The more personal and insightful the pitch is, the more character it has and the more like a story it feels. It’s a bit like, don’t put your tuxedo on to go and meet your prospective mother-in-law, just put on a really good polo shirt. Be professional but relaxed because no one wants to meet the guy in the tuxedo. 

Hanna (13:12) Love it.

Michael (13:13) So aside from getting your name wrong in the pitch, which is an immediate disqualifier, what are some of the other don'ts that people should avoid? 

Mark (13:23) Rather than don'ts can I give you some do’s? Cause I think that could be a bit more constructive. 

Michael (13:26) …Yeah…yes.

Mark (13:27) Ok, so I always count…and Sasha will know this, Sasha is a publicist I know and work with who came to my attention because he was, he pitched me brilliantly by email and it’s an example I always give. The best stories come from culture not from you. 

They are highjacking the zeitgeist and dragooning it into your service and they’re saying “hey, something’s going on and we want a piece of that.” And I remember Sasha emailed me and he said, “I think baldness is big right now, Natalie Portman is bald in V for Vendetta, Tyra Banks has made all the top model contestants wear bald caps for a challenge and I have a brand new head shaving razor, don’t you think you should write about it?” 

And that got a double-page spread in a massive newspaper because he saw how his product or his idea wasn’t unique, nothing is unique unless it’s time travel. It was part of what was happening and therefore it was a great story. 

The other thing I would always say to people is everyone’s ego is way bigger than we pretend and I will coo and sort of pur like a pussycat if you open your email with “Hi Mark, I saw an amazing story you wrote last week, I loved XY about it.” I don't, even if you’re lying about it I’ll never know but I will be completely bold over with the fact that you love what I write. And it’s so disarming, flattery is such a big weapon. 

Hanna (15:00) You know you gotta do homework. 

Mark (15:02) Yeah, which is, that’s a less facetious way. I think all of us want to feel like when we receive a pitch we are receiving it because it’s aimed at us not because there were forty people to email. So if you open by saying, I saw you were at X last week, it instantly shows you’re not just search and replacing my name, even if you kind of are. 

Hanna (15:29) Great insights. So Mark, just like you, we love traveling and we love staying at hotels, we love love love hotels and you know although it’s a very challenging time, we know that hotels are here to stay. So question for you, how important will hotel food and beverage be in rebuilding our hotel industry?

Mark (15:57) So I think that’s a great question and for hospitality I think it’s a fundamental question. In the last ten years, hotels have doubled down on a dual audience. F&B in hotels has become a property’s ambassadorship to its local audience. 

Essentially a hotel now has great F&B not really for the guests but to make money out of and to win over the local people. So I actually think the reason F&B really matters in a post-COVID or a COVID-under semi-control kind of world is that you will get support from your community. 

Your F&B is about getting your neighbors in to have a cocktail on your patio, socially distanced, but just to bring a bit more energy and then the guests who are staying in the hotel rooms feel like they’re in a fun place and essentially your neighbors are acting as human furniture and it’s a win win. 

Hanna (17:00)  Yeah, totally. I mean I miss so much of our Times Square Edition hotel and as you know we handled PR for the entire F&B and that’s just a magical place you know it’s fun and so much you know interesting food and drinks and entertainment and yeah, we miss that place. 

Mark (17:23)  I know and I can hear it in your voice. I think anyone listening, all of us who love hospitality, I miss that warmth and the intimacy because what COVID-19 has denied us, social distancing is about, is about creating lack of intimacy for a good reason. So we’re craving that amazing moment of sitting at a bar next to someone you don’t know, hearing them order a drink thinking that sounds amazing, I’ll have that too. 

Michael (17:51) We.. we can daydream.

Hanna (17:52) Exactly.

Mark (17:53)  And you know what? That'll do for now, I’m happy daydreaming, I have a list of places I’m going to run to the minute I’m allowed to. 

Michael (18:01) Yeah, can we pry? 

Mark (18:03) I will tell you actually I was supposed to be going to Mozambique, in Mozambique in South Africa in April and then I pushed it back to September, and I’ve now pushed it to June 2021. One of my favorite long-haul destinations. 

I cannot wait to go down to Miami and stay at Standard Spa which is one of my favorite chill-out places on the other side of South Beach from Ocean Drive and sit by that pool when everyone has no stresses and no worries and have a glass of Frose and feel like the world has returned. 

That will feel, and get into one, it’s a lovely spa hotel with a giant roll top bath outside the rooms and when I get into that bath the next time it will be sort of like drawing a line under all the horribleness. 

Michael (18:54) Love it.

Hanna (18:55) Wow, I wanna go, I wanna go with you. 

Mark (18:57) You come with us, come with us. 

Hanna (18:59) Yes, yes.

Michael (19:01)  So speaking about hotel F&B, that brings us to the listener question segment of the show. 

Mark (19:06) Fire away, I didn’t know about this so fire away, I love this.

Hanna(19:08) Alright.

Michael (19:09) So we have a question from Chris Lauber, the F&B director at The James Hotel in SoHo, New York. You wrote a great story in June on hotels going contactless and taking other measures for social distancing.. he wants to know do you see these as temporary or a fundamental shift in our hospitality culture? 

Mark (19:32) I think the good bits will hopefully be permanent. So let me tell you. This was a story I wrote for Conde Nast Traveler about how hotels will change in COVID and post-COVID and some of the things I really love for example, they, one hotel said to me, we’re going to fill the bathrooms with more towels so that housekeeping isn’t essential everyday if you don’t feel like it. I don’t know about you but I’ve been dying for there to be excess towels in the bathroom so I hope that stays. 

I think creative ways of doing turn down, so another hotel instead of going into the room would leave little, little door hangers with a little pint of strawberries from the hotel's own farm and an extra shampoo bottle and a little note from the room attendant saying “if you need anything, just call us” instead of going in. 

That to me is kind of lovely. If you’re, I don’t really want to get disturbed when I’m probably having a bath at 6 o’clock and I’m relaxing. I think that could and I hope does stay. 

Hanna (20:32) Alright Mark this has been so great. You and Nikki are geniuses, traveling geniuses.

Michael (20:57) Great chemistry.

Mark (20:59) She’s the smart one, I’m just the comic relief, I defer to her, she knows way more than I do. 

Hanna (21:03) You guys are so great, so when is season three starting, because we want to tune in? 

Mark (21:09) Exactly, so we were due to be recording season three starting, we recorded one episode just before we locked down and long term listeners would have heard us. We decided it just didn’t feel, Travel Genius is all about the goofiness and the fun of travel and we didn’t all feel very goofy and fun in April and May so we decided to push back our recording. We will be back in Q4, we are teeing up to pick up where we left off which is really exciting because it feels another return to normalcy, a little bit. 

Michael (21:35) Well, we’ll be waiting for it. 

Hanna (21:36) Absolutely, we’ll be tuning in and I wish we could talk to you more and more and more because we love listening to you and we love listening to your insights and everything.

Mark (21:45) Thank you both.