Episode #50 - Stacey Lastoe, Condé Nast Traveler, Wine Enthusiast, Fodor's Travel and more

Hanna (2:30)
Hi, Stacey. Welcome to the show. 

Michael (2:32)
Thanks for joining us today. 

Stacey (2:34)
Thanks for having me excited to be here.

Michael (2:37)
Us too. So why don't we start at the beginning? How'd you get into journalism and was it always your dream to be a writer? 

Stacey (2:42)
Oh gosh, well, yes, I think it was always my dream to be a writer. Um, I was talking to someone at a conference for travel, a Travel Classics conference I was at in Scottsdale and we were both talking about how we always loved telling stories when we were little. Um, and so I don't know if, you know, at the time I was thinking, you know, journalism or I'm going to write a novel. I used to write these fun little fiction short stories. Um, so I think it's always been sort of a skill I've had something I've enjoyed.

I've always been a reader. Um, you know, you can't really write if you don't read. Um, and then in terms of how I got into the field, it's probably a bit too long for a ticket to hold anyone's interest. But in a nutshell, I wasn't sure what I wanted to do after college. We didn't have a journalism major. I went to Bucknell University in Lewisburg, Pennsylvania. Um, so I was an English and psychology major. Had no idea what I wanted to do when I graduated. 

So I backpacked around Europe for five weeks with a friend. Um, this all kind of comes full circle with the travel thing eventually, but, um, you know, fast forward a couple of years later, grad school, I thought, okay book publishing, I'll discover the next great novelist, uh, ended up working on English composition textbooks. Which, I enjoy grammar and all of those pieces, but, uh, it wasn't terribly exciting. 

Um, so I quit after a couple of years and backpacked around South America for a year by myself. Um, and then I moved back to New York City after that. And it was really when all of the .com’s. You know, there was a website for everything under the sun.

And so I worked, uh, as a writer and an editor at a couple now defunct sites, uh, Lifestyle, Mirror, Elizabeth Street. And then, um, I was at Refinery29 after that. And, um, you know, I've just always kind of been in digital media, and then CNN and now I'm freelancing. 

Hanna (4:35)
As you mentioned previously, you worked at CNN Travel for more than three years as a senior editor, but now you are a full-time freelance writer. So what, what are the challenges and rewards of being a freelancer? 

Stacey (4:50)
So the hardest thing in the beginning was figuring out, well, first of all, I was. I was so used to writing for a particular audience. We also had, you know, traffic goals and we had different audiences internationally we were trying to reach. So we weren't just writing for domestic. It was, you know, as broad reaching as possible, there was a lot, you know, we were limited and couldn't do. And then of course we had these great resources to work with awesome video producers and literally fly to Greece to shoot stories for sponsorships. 

So it was like, okay, I can write about and pitch anything. It doesn't have to be for CNN's audience. So that was both very exciting, but also figuring out where to land those pieces. Okay, what publication, in spite of the fact that I'm a voracious reader, you know, try to keep up with all the travel news. It's still sort of figuring out, okay, well, would this be good at Condé Nast Traveler? Or maybe Travel + Leisure or Wine Enthusiast. But once I got the hang of that, it's been pretty, pretty smooth sailing. 

Hanna (5:50)
You have so much freedom now to write about so many different topics and for different audiences. 

Stacey (5:55)
Yes. So much freedom.

Michael (5:56)
Speaking from personal experience as a freelance writer myself, I know how difficult it is to break into the freelance writing game, especially getting that first gig. So what was your first story as a freelance writer and how did that come about? 

Stacey (6:11)
Uh, it was for Fodors Travel and it was on, uh, how to travel to Maui in January. Uh, it was for my 40th birthday. I'm not even familiar with all the restrictions now, but I was like, this is a story because it's so complicated, you know, like you can't just get tested anywhere.

No one was vaccinated yet. You know, very few people were vaccinated. So I reached out to someone I'd worked with at CNN, for her contact at Fodors and the freelance community is so wonderful. Everyone is always willing to share a contact. And I just, I, I pitched him the story and it was a personal essay piece and he loved it and I did it.

And then just kept working with him and then just started pitching other editors. 

Hanna (6:48)
How do you choose the publication that you write for? 

Stacey (6:52)
In the beginning I talked to a lot of writers that I worked with and I was at CNN and I would say, you know, who do you really enjoy working for? You know, how has your experience been as a freelancer and I've, you know, read some of their pieces. So a lot of it came kind of recommended like that. And then of course I had my own list of places, um, and still do to some extent but I’m not too rigid about that. 

Michael (7:16)
And as a freelancer, were there any new topics or industries you had to really learn more about to be more effective? 

Stacey (7:23)
Yeah. Uh, in the beginning I started doing a lot of spirits content. I wrote a really fun piece on trademark drinks for Wine Enthusiast. And I got to talk to, you know, a patent lawyer, a copyright lawyer, and then, you know, people that had gone, you know, made the efforts to brand these drinks, you know, like Sazerac. So I couldn't do really booze content at CNN. The audience just didn't really go for it. So it was fun to kind of branch out and, and do that and then moved into some wine writing and yeah, just a lot of different things. 

Hanna (7:58)
In addition to all of these various publications that you're writing for now, are there any new media outlets or dream publications that you'd like to write for in 2022? 

Stacey (8:09)
I would like to write for the Wall Street Journal's Off-Duty section, and I've had, uh, I've had good interactions with an editor that I've reached out to, and she hasn't, uh, assigned me anything or taken any of my pitches. But, um, it's always great to get a little bit of feedback. Uh, and I know it's, I know it's tough. You know, I sat on the other side of the desk. It's really hard to give every single pitch that comes through adequate feedback. Um, and then I'd like to, uh, Hemispheres. I just, uh, was at this conference when I was at Scottsdale and had a great conversation with the editor-in-chief of Hemispheres. Um, so that's another, that'll be another fun one to try to get a good story. 

Hanna (8:49)
Yeah. That's one of our favorite in-flight magazines as well. So wishing you best of luck for 2022 publications.

Michael (8:55)
Our fingers are crossed. So let's drill down a little bit into the story pitching process. So what are the lead times look like for the various publications that you pitch? For example, Robb Report versus Wine Enthusiast versus Condé Nast Traveler versus The New York Post.

Hanna (9:14)
But also, what is the lead time to pitch you? And then you have a lead time to pitch your editor with that idea. 

Stacey (9:22)
I tend to sort of book up in advance and look at my schedule from a four to six weeks out, uh, point of view, even longer if I can. Um, that's not to say that if I pitch something and an editor asks for it in two weeks, if that's doable or if it's a timely feature, I'm going to do it.

But I prefer to get PR pitches on things in as much advance as possible. I'm also not doing, I tend to think of in-house editors and staff writers is doing more of the events or national day of, or, you know, some of those, like those quick news trends, obviously a lot of publications also rely on, on freelance writers for those, but those aren't going to be the stories that I tend to gravitate towards.

Um, but in general, I am trying to go for, you know, somewhat more deeper features. Interviewing lots of sources and it can take a lot of time. Um, and I, you know, depending on it, depending on the editor's responsiveness, um, if you know, you have this great idea, you might hear back later that day, otherwise it might take a couple of follow-ups. So from start to finish, it could be, you know, even with digital a few months from pitch to publication.

Michael (10:28)
Well, and speaking about deep feature stories, uh, we really enjoyed your piece in Wine Enthusiast on the harvest interns. And it was really great that you spotlighted, you know, what you call the unsung heroes of the wine industry. We couldn't agree more with that. So how did that story idea come your way? And how'd you find all those amazing folks they interview? 

Stacey (10:50)
Uh, yeah. Thank you for bringing this one up. It's actually probably my favorite piece that I did this year, just because talking to these interns and hearing their passion, I was so inspired, but I, I went, I was on a trip in, in Napa valley, in early August and met, um, another editor, um, Dylan Garret from Wine Enthusiast. And every time you're going to a new winery or learning about something new and sort of seemed to be on the same page in terms of what we found really fascinating. And I had just never thought of wine interns during wine harvest. I think I probably thought of interns in a more traditional like office setting.

Um, so I was like, this is so cool. Like they come out here, they learn how to make wine. Then maybe some of them, you know, go on to make their own wine or open their own winery. And this is how it all starts. If you really need the practice and that kind of field, if you want to do it right. Um, so Dylan and I chatted a little bit on that trip and then, um, talked when I got back and he assigned me the piece and he suggested talking to interns worldwide. 

But because of the different harvest seasons, uh, it was really challenging to find people abroad. Then I reached out to a bunch of different contacts and that's how the interns sort of came up. Just, uh, I think, I think in this industry, and as you guys I'm sure both know so well, connections are everything. And those relationships are everything. And you know, I never want to take that for granted. 

Hanna (12:11)
Yeah. Relationship is everything. And who you know, how you know and how deeply you know that person. That's all about our industry. 

You also had a fun story in American Way about a beer spot in Denver where guests can soak in tubs, filled with beer. I love that idea. How did this get on your radar? 

Stacey (12:34)
Uh, that one, a former CNN colleague, forwarded me a press release. That one was almost like, I think The American Way, this would be great. I know that magazine fairly well, fly American a lot and she loved it. And then I interviewed the owners and yeah.

Hanna (12:49)
It was a great travel destination story.

Stacey (12:53)
Totally. Thank you.

Hanna (12:54)
Adding to my travel bucket list.

Stacey (12:57)
Your bucket list!

Michael (13:00)
So looking ahead to 2022, what types of stories and topics do you foresee yourself working on and how could our listeners be a part of them? 

Stacey (13:08)
Well, I am doing some more editing work. I'm just starting to do some editing for Condé Nast Traveler, um, and potentially more for Fodors. So I haven't thought too much about what I'm going to pitch.

I want to do stories that I really care about and that mean something to me, those are the best ones to work on. You know, I'm of course you'll probably take the occasional assignments that come my way. That's not like, oh, I'm super excited about this, but I really think the strongest pieces come from, you know, topics that you're passionate about or something that you're curious about and want to know more about. Um, anytime I travel, I come back with oodles of ideas. Um, so that's always gonna be the source of inspiration. 

The best stories to work on are the ones that mean something to me. I really think the strongest pieces come from topics that you're curious about and want to know more about.

Hanna (13:52)
And I enjoy reading your New York City Hotels are Reopening on The New York Post. Um, will you be doing more story on hotels overall? 

Stacey (14:01)
I'd love to. Yeah. Um, Uh, we'll see what happens if there's some new places or, uh, you know, roundups that need to be done. I had a great time editing the Fodors Finest Hotels List, because I think those are more challenging than people think. I wrote a few of the entries too. I mean, you're, you're talking, you have 200 words to try to encapsulate. What this hotel is all about and why it's the best in this area. 

And we had done so much research on this project and selecting these hotels, and it was so much fun to edit that, just because to see how people, the details they chose and wove in. And then that inspired me to write mine. So, um, yeah, definitely hoping to do more hotels 

Hanna (14:42)
As international travel becomes more accessible. How do you think the consumer outlook has changed in terms of their preferences? 

Stacey (14:52)
I think the remote vacation, you know, properties that have a lot of space. I do think, you know, depending on the season, but that you can, you know, spend a lot of time outside or you're just not on top of people. I think, you know, to some extent, inclusive experience, some people are looking for that, um, you know, less planning and just total relaxation.

But I think then there's always going to be people who, you know, if they're going to a new place kind of want to bounce around a couple of hotels. Um, I mean, at least that's what I like doing to check out different neighborhoods. Um, and we'll see how long my husband puts up with that one. 

Hanna (15:28)
And good marriage is based on husbands saying yes to their wives, right, honey? 

Michael (15:34)
Yes dear.

Hanna (15:37)
Yeah, exactly. So I'm sure your husband would be very flexible on your preferences. 

Michael (15:42)
So continuing this vein for a little bit, what types of innovations have you been seeing in the travel industry that you think should continue after the pandemic?

Stacey (15:53)
I think technology is going to continue to be important for a lot of people. Um, I don't know that contactless has really taken off. I think that people still want human interaction in hotels. I think that's, you know, where hospitality really shines obviously is in the human to human aspect.

Um, and so I think some of those modern day conveniences, you know, if you can check in on your phone. Okay, great. But you know, people want to feel, you know, they're in a safe, clean space. And I think by and large, and in my travels, which have just been domestic so far, I have really seen that there's a real effort and, and a real communication in the language, whether it's on a hotel website or when you get there, or the remote is in a plastic, you know, things that have been like kind of high high-touch surfaces.Um, and I, and I do think that's, that's here to stay and that just, you know, enhanced cleanli factor, uh, people definitely want to continue to see more. 

Hanna (16:50)
For our listeners who we call Newsmakers in our industry. What are your top three do's and don'ts when they pitch you? 

Stacey (17:00)
I'll just start with don'ts. Don’t email twice in one day on the same thing, uh, or even 24 hours. It's a lot. Um, I think I've heard a lot of people mention on your show that you have to keep a PR folder and we really do go back to it. You know, it's like, okay, I'm looking to do this piece on hotels that have X, and so, you know, who's been emailing me about a lot of their hotel clients or food, and then not saying you're going to get back to me if I reach out with a request, and then not, you know, if you're unable to provide the information or, you know, there's, it's, it's out of your hands, let me know. I just think open communication is super essential there. 

And then I think there's always, you know, the, I don't know how it happens, but I think we all get a lot of PR pitches that are not on anything that we would ever cover. So for me getting stuff on parenting or parents, it's like, I mean, I don't, you know, it's not relevant to me. And then, you know, do’s, I think I'll take occasional calls or do meetings. Um, I love putting a face with emails or, you know, going to events or if I've seen you both, um, that could just be so useful and helpful when you are getting a barrage of emails each week and month.

And so just kind of like reaching out regularly, you know, even if there's sort of nothing new going on. Um, I think that the question, like what stories are you working on is always a challenging one because everyone's so busy and do really want to hear about the 20 stories I've sort of got in the pipeline, but yeah, those are the basics.

Hanna (18:32)
We've been very lucky to get to know you over the years and have worked together on several stories. But for those who don't know you yet, what do you think is the best way to start building a working relationship with you? Is that social media DM or is that emailing you just saying hello or what's the best? 

Stacey (18:52)
Uh, I'm not a social media DM. I mean, you can try it, but probably not. Uh, email all the way and I'm, I'm easy to find. I don't even have the contact form on my website. I just have my email because I think if you want to get in touch, get in touch. Yeah. I think an email letting me know who your clients are or you know, how you can potentially help, how we can potentially work together. And then maybe there's a call that takes place a couple of weeks later.

Or now that people are back out a coffee, if, if we're both in New York, You know, again, I really, I do like to, to build on these relationships because I think those are the ones that, you know, then you can really collaborate and work together and we need it. We need each other. 

Michael (19:29)
When people are ready to pitch you, what are the top three things they should have ready to share? You know, why, why this pitch? 

Stacey (19:34)
You know, why, why this pitch? So if it's, if there's a timely angle or if it's something new or there's been, you know, a change at this restaurant, people need to know about. Uh, I need to know, like, why am I getting this right now? You know, even if there isn't a real timely factor, I might not do anything with it for 10 months.

Um, and then I think like some top stats if that's relevant because that could just kind of get juices flowing and then pictures, you know, if it's, if it's a hotel or we're talking about this fantastic food dish, I do think pictures can be helpful because a lot of editors, and I know at CNN, we always, I mean, some stories were literally like, yeah, we want this one.

If we can get good pictures. Yeah. And we rely on a lot of PR handouts for those.

Hanna (20:16)
We couldn't agree more with you about the photo, because I think the importance of the content creation, but also the importance of the photography, the visual storytelling is so more important than ever. 

Stacey (20:28)
Yes. Agreed.

Michael (20:29)
So we call our podcast Hospitality Forward because we think our industry has a very bright future. So what organization or individual have you recently seen taking hospitality and travel? 

Stacey (20:43)
I don't have an individual to name, but it is the individuals. I stayed at this beautiful place in Scottsdale, at The Boulders and every staff member I encountered was so lovely. I think that there's a way to train people to be in the hospitality industry. I worked in restaurants for many years. I liked it, but there's also a reason that that's not for me, but you know, you can really tell the difference between someone who knows how to be hospitable and those who truly are passionate about their jobs and probably have a great boss because it all is, you know, kind of top-down. If your, if your hat, you know, you like who you work for, um, you know, and then that filters through your, your experience. 

Hanna (21:26)
Very true. Well, before we wrap up a fun question for you, what is your favorite cocktail and who would you want to share it with and why? 

Stacey (21:38)
Uh, I'm going to go with The Manhattan. I love a Manhattan. And I will take it with, I usually order a rye Manhattan if I'm out, but I'll make it with Basil Hayden's, which is one of my favorites at home. Um, so if I were having one, I'm going to go with Cecilia Chiang because I had the absolute pleasure of actually eating Chinese food at her house and drinking. I think it was Negra. 

Or some really, really cold beer. She was like, it's really, really cold beer. It goes with the spicy. And it was, she was just such a joy to hang out with that. I would love to have a cocktail with her and maybe like a six-course meal, because she was doing that pretty much up until the day that she passed last year.

Hanna (22:23)
How about your hubby?

Stacey (22:25)
Yes. Well, we did get into a cocktail hour during the pandemic. He's always a joy to drink with, but he's a gin and tonic guy, so he won't drink my Manhattans, but that's okay. 

Michael (22:33)
He might over time.

Stacey (22:34)
I don't know. His dad drank gin and tonics and he's just gin sometimes it's just like, you know what? You like stick with it. Right.