Episode #54: Tim Chan, Rolling Stone’s Senior Director of Commerce
Hanna (2:10)
Hi Tim. Welcome to the show.
Michael (2:13)
Great to see you.
Tim (2:14)
Yeah. Thanks for having me
Hanna (2:15)
So Tim, you have a very distinguished career in journalism. So tell us how you got started on your journey?
Tim (2:23)
Yeah, well, currently I am the Director of Products and Commerce at Rolling Stone magazine, which is definitely a dream job. But it took me a long time to get here.
And I guess it all kind of started in high school because I've always had a passion for writing. And I remember being in high school being like the editor of my high school newspaper.
And so I was always into writing and journalism, and then I ended up going to journalism school. So, I did my undergrad in political science and sociology. Um, but I did grad school in journalism.
And once I got through that program, that was just like huge validation because it proved to me that like journalism could actually be a viable career path for me and not just a hobby. My first job out of journalism school was for a TV station in New York called NY1, nowadays I think it's called Spectrum News NY1. But I used to produce their morning show.
And so from there, you know, I interned at a bunch of magazines freelance. I started my own magazine for a couple of years called Corduroy, like a corduroy jacket. I've also worked across TV. I've worked for Snapchat, a bunch of different mediums and outlets. And then finally about three years ago, I started my job at Rolling Stone.
Michael (3:36)
So how did you land that first job at Rolling Stone?
Tim (3:40)
It's really funny because I had been working for our parent company, which is called Penske Media and we own a bunch of different magazines. And I was working on a website for them called Spy.com. It was a site that I started for them and it's like a men's shopping site. So we spy cool things for you to buy. And so when we got news that we acquired Rolling Stone, I said, “Oh my goodness, Rolling Stone is my dream magazine, and now it's part of the Penske Media family.”
So I started kind of like following up with their editors there, cold emailing them. I said, “Hey, I'm already part of this corporate family. Could I also start writing for you on the side?” And so for a while I was doing two things. I was managing Spy.com, but I would freelance for Rolling Stone.
And then in August, 2019, I was in New York visiting our corporate headquarters. So I went down to the Rolling Stone office and I knocked on the door of the president, his name's Gus Weiner, he's a great guy. And I knocked on his door and I said, “Hey. I don't know if you know me, but my name is Tim Chan. I've been freelancing for you. I actually run this site, Spy.com, which is in the same company, but I would love to work for you full time. I think you should hire me.”
Michael (4:52)
Wow. Bold.
Tim (4:53)
And he said, “Well, why would I hire you? Like, what do you do? What can you offer?” And I said, “You know, Rolling Stone is such an iconic brand, but you've never covered the lifestyle space. Now lifestyle could mean, food, fashion, travel, hospitality.” You know, I said, “Why don't you guys cover this? You know, Kanye West makes more money selling sneakers than he does selling albums. Gwenyth Paltrow makes more money for Goop her lifestyle brand than she does with movies. So why are we not covering lifestyle?”
And to his credit, you know, Gus, my boss was like, “You know what? That's a great idea. Go back home, write your job description and tell me what you want.” And two weeks later, I started at Rolling Stone.
Hanna (5:38)
So you created your own job. That's incredible. And I love the fact how proactive you are just going in there and telling them what you can do and why they have to do it.
Michael (5:51)
That took a lot of guts.
Tim (5:54)
Well, I think, you know, a lot of times people are afraid to ask for what they want because they're afraid of the consequences. But when you really think about it, there's very little to lose by going after what you want.
Hanna (6:03)
Now I can see why you got promoted at Rolling Stone not once, but twice. And recently, as you mentioned now, you are the Rolling Stone’s Senior Director of Commerce. Congratulations. So what does that job entail?
Tim (6:22)
Yeah. So when I first started at Rolling Stone, it was more of an editorial job, which means writing articles and editing articles. Now I manage anything that can make money for the company. So that could be, uh, helping with events. I'm now running the merchant stores. If anyone listening wants cool Rolling Stone merch, come to our shop.
You know, I manage any of our sponsored posts. Sometimes advertisers will pay for articles to be written, and then we get to work with them to come up with a really cool branded campaign. So it's really anything that touches or bridges the line between commerce and editorial.
Michael (7:01)
Fascinating. So Rolling Stone has been around since the mid-60s. How do you think it stays relevant for all, all the, the ups and downs of our civilization?
Tim (7:10)
Rolling Stone has always been at the pulse of pop culture. You know, everyone thinks it's a music magazine, but it was actually quite political even from its early years. And so we've seen a lot of growth, obviously in the political space, but also we continue to turn out really great stories. You know, Rolling Stone is not a gossip magazine.
We are a journalism magazine and people often forget that because we do cover Jennifer Lopez or Shawn Mendes or Justin Bieber or whoever. And a lot of people think, “Oh, you're just like a gossip magazine,” but we're not because we're actually interviewing and spending time with these musicians and telling their stories. So I think we’re staying relevant just because we've always kept journalism first at the heart of everything we do.
Hanna (7:53)
What makes a Rolling Stone story, a Rolling Stone story?
Tim (7:59)
I think definitely anything with a music connection or entertainment connection will always be an easy yes. In my book, you know, if I have to choose between two restaurants and one restaurant has really good food, but the other restaurant has good food and a lot of musicians eat there. I'm probably going to write about the one that the musicians eat at, because you have to remember when you're pitching Rolling Stone it’s not the same as Bon Appétit magazine. You know, our focus is music and pop culture.
Michael (8:27)
So what are some of the favorite topics that you covered?
Tim (8:29)
I mean, I love writing about celebrity collaborations. I just interviewed Mariah Carey a few months ago cause she has like a McDonald's partnership, which I thought was so fun. And it was so great to get to talk to her. I also love writing about inspiring stories, you know, I love an underdog story. If you started, you know, your own snack brand, but you grew up maybe going to the food bank and not having money and not inspired you to start this snack brand. That to me is so fun to write about because you're giving a voice to people who did not have a voice previously, and you're helping to amplify their feel-good story.
Michael (9:08)
Well, speaking of snacks, you had a really fun story on the Jonas Brothers Rob's Backstage Popcorn. So do you typically get to try all the products that you cover?
Tim (9:19)
Well, if I'm reviewing it and writing about it, I will always ask for a sample because I think it's very disingenuous to be promoting something that you haven't tried yourself. Now, here's the thing that people don't realize. They think no matter what, we'll write about it, but there have been times where I've actually tried something and it didn't work or it didn't taste good or I did not like it. And so we won't promote that because again, it feels very dishonest for me to be writing about something that isn't good.
Hanna (9:44)
You must receive a lot of product samples, right? So how do you choose which ones to spotlight?
Tim (9:51)
You know, we joke that in my office, it's basically like the Rolling Stone gifting lounge, because there's so many product samples there. So people at work love visiting me at my office because everyday they comment that they leave with something, you know, it's definitely a nice perk that people are sending us stuff and we don't take that for granted.
I will say we choose, normally to write about, it has to be a quality product. So let's talk about, you know, wine, for example. The wine has to taste good. That's the bottom line. And after that, then I look for the story behind it. What is special about this wine? Who are the people behind it? Why is it being released now. Is it limited edition?
You know, all of these questions I asked before, I choose a product to review and write about, you know, if it's something that's like a big corporation behind it, and they're launching a product that doesn't have the same impact as if it was like a single mom or an Asian owned business, or, you know, we're really trying to support like Black owned businesses right now. So anything with a human angle will definitely elevate that product to the top of my list, as opposed to people who just threw a bunch of money and launched a product.
Hanna (11:04)
Yeah. I mean, you're creating the emotional connection between the brand and the consumers, so totally get it.
Michael (11:11)
Speaking of people, you had a great story with a chef, Mario Carbone of Major Food Group, and his new pasta sauce. So what was most surprising about interviewing Chef Mario? Who's extremely charming and very, very charismatic.
Tim (11:29)
You know, back in the day when chefs were around, they just had to be chefs. They just had to be good in the kitchen, and that's it. Nowadays, we're asking a lot from these chefs and you gotta be personable and you got to do interviews. You gotta be on social media, you gotta expand your business. And so I was very surprised that Mario really has all of these things down on lock. He's very personable. Very handsome, you know, if you meet him in person. Not shy, not awkward. And you know, he's a great chef.
And I think what was interesting about that interview is, Carbone has this reputation of being very, very exclusive. You can barely get a table. You got to know someone to get a table. And his thing is now he's launching a pasta sauce, which you can buy online. And it's giving people around the country a chance to get a taste of Carbone if they can't actually go to the restaurant. So going back to my previous answer about what makes a good story. That to me was a story.
Hanna (12:31)
Absolutely. But now let's talk about Snoop Dogg. We are huge fans of Snoop and love his gin. Love his cookbook. Love everything about Snoop. I love him.
Michael (12:44)
You had a great story about how his cookbook returned to being an Amazon bestseller following his Super Bowl halftime performance. So what prompted you to write that story? And what does the lead time look like for a story like that? Since it was so, you know, keyed in to an event that actually took place.
Tim (13:01)
So this is a great example of if you're a publicist who's listing right now, or someone who's pitching a product, you can pitch products that aren't new, as long as there's a new angle.
So that Snoop Dogg book actually came out three, four years ago. There's nothing new about it. But because he performed at this year’s Super Bowl, people were searching for Snoop Dogg online, on Google and Amazon.
And when they type in Snoop Dogg, you know, his cookbook pops up. And so I kind of had to feel it. People would be searching for him or all of the performers after the Super Bowl. And sure enough, Snoop Dogg's cookbook had returned to the top of the charts following the super bowl. And so this was not something that I was pitched by his publicist or by the publisher of the book. It was just something that I found a new angle for because of the super bowl.
Michael (13:53)
And you connected the dots.
Tim (13:55)
Yeah. And I think a lot of people say, “Listen, I already tried pitching this product. Like I didn't get along. Attention or feedback.” Well, let's try pitching in a different way. Can you think of a relevant angle that all of a sudden makes your product new and exciting again?
Hanna (14:09)
Exactly. I think it's a good example, how publishers or book publicists should think in different ways, to bring that attention even, even after three years.
So thanks for teaching us. That's great tips. And so, in the coming months, what type of stories that we'll be working on?
Tim (14:28)
So a lot of summer travel stories. A lot of road-tripping stories. People are really instead of like road-tripping again. So for summer we see a lot of spritzers get pitched to us, if we're talking about, you know, food and beverage. A lot of like, summer clothing items, things like that. And then everything is seasonal. Then we get into gift guides like Mother's Day, Father's Day, then it's back to school. And then before you know it, it's gonna be Black Friday and the holidays again.
Hanna (14:56)
Like, what are the lead times for, let's say Father's Day and Mother's Day? So like how, soon can our listeners to start pitching you?
Tim (15:05)
Well, if you want something to be in book, meaning in the magazine, we work about three to four months in advance. So I would say for father's day or mother's day, we're probably already too late to pitch for.
However online is a whole different ball game. You could pitch me something today and I could write it up today or write it up for tomorrow. You know, online is very different and we also are constantly updating our articles. So I would say for online, you can pitch up until a week before the holiday and if it's a good product and if we have the time, we'll definitely consider.
Hanna (15:44)
I have a question because I think this is something that we often have a conversation about with other journalists. So for example, if there’s a round-up story on, let's say the best vodka brands. If somebody who is representing the vodka brand wanted to be included in that story, if that person comes to you and says, “Hey, I saw your vodka story and loved it. Any chance you can consider our vodka brand, here's a sample.” Is there something that you are okay with? Because I know sometimes journalists say, “No, don't pitch me once I’ve run the story.” So what is your take on that?
Tim (16:21)
Yeah, so it's different. I think for Rolling Stone, a lot of our stories are what we call evergreen stories, which means best vodka brands. You can read it now, but would also be relevant a year from now, people are always going to be drinking vodka.
So I actually don't mind if you pitch me something that's already been published. What I do ask though is tell me why your product deserves to be on the list and why it's better than, or different from the other bottles that are already on the list. And, you know, if you tell me a story behind it and tell me why your product is different from what I already have, then I'll definitely consider it. It's not enough to just be like, “Hey, can you throw another product on the list?”
Michael (17:08)
Yeah, that's right.
Hanna (17:09)
So speaking of pitching, would you mind sharing, let's say three practical tips that our listeners who don't have a PR agency to represent them, that they can remember and come to you and get your attention.
Tim (17:22)
I love talking about this because it not only helps you, but it also helps me and saves me time too, when it's a good pitch. So the first thing you definitely want to make sure your subject line is tight and unique. And so the mistake that a lot of people are making right now is they say “Pitch for consideration, colon.” And then they tell me what the product is. But the “Pitch for consideration,” already took up so much of my subject line, I actually don't see what you're pitching me.
And so I would always lead with the product first, and then afterwards you can say “Pitch” or “Mother's Day Gift Guide” or “Father's Day Gift Guide,” or whatever. But make sure you lead with the product name or lead with what makes the product unique.
My second tip is to make sure your initial pitch is short and sweet. Your pitch should be three to four lines, one paragraph max. If I want more information about the brand, then I'll ask for the media kit, but don't be sending me every single thing in one email, because it's just going to be really overwhelming. And I won't have time to read through it.
Hanna (18:28)
That's a great tip. I’ve got to learn too, because I tend to give a lot of information. So I'm going to continue to practice not to do it.
Michael (18:37)
Sometimes less is more.
Tim (18:39)
Yeah. Less is more for sure. And then I would say the best publicists that I work with are the ones who helped me come up with story ideas. A lot of times they say, “Hey, if you're working on a vodka story, let me know.”
Well, I probably am not working on a vodka story or I don't have any plans to, but if you have a cool vodka brand and you're like, “Hey, would you like to interview a single mom who started a vodka brand?” Oh all of a sudden you gave me a story idea. So you're helping me already think of how I can write up this product. Or I would also say, “List three to four different ideas in your pitch.” So you can say, “Hey, our client's name is Mary, she has a vodka brand, here are four different things she can talk about.”
She can talk about how vodka is made. She can talk about female entrepreneurship. She can talk about how the new taxation laws are affecting her business. And then she can talk about how she survived during the pandemic and kept her business alive. If you can come to me with article ideas already, that helps me immensely because I don't need to think of where I can slot your product in.You've already given me an angle to tackle this product and write about it.
Hanna (19:49)
I mean, this is so priceless. Thanks so much for sharing these incredible practical tips. So now let's talk about all things digital.
Michael (19:59)
So do you use social media a lot for your work?
Hanna (20:04)
And do you use it to find interesting ideas or sources for your story?
Tim (20:07)
Yeah, I hundred percent use social media and I believe in it so strongly. I actually think LinkedIn is the new Instagram, so I want to make sure everyone who is listening, make sure you update your LinkedIn page. And I actually think I have a strong one, so like, please look at my LinkedIn. It's not enough to list where you work, but you gotta show what you do and what you've accomplished.
And then also make sure you're sharing your work on LinkedIn, because that's where a lot of big companies are gonna find out about you. But in terms of other social media, Twitter, Instagram, I'm on all of them. And I actually use social media really to promote my work. Um, I don't use Instagram to post selfies or take pictures of my brunch. If you go to my Instagram, you'll see me writing about work, writing about work events. I've been to work trips and you won't believe the number of people I've met through Instagram in a professional setting like publicists brand owners. Just cool people that say, Hey, I follow you on Instagram more. Hey, I saw your Instagram and I saw you wrote about this topic. We'd love to connect with you because we have something similar for you to write about.
Hanna (21:20)
One thing I learned through your Instagram posts where you posted about, “Hey, I'm doing this type of panel discussion, I'm doing the speaking at different convention.” And I was like, wow, not only is he a journalist, but now he is telling everyone that I am available to be a panel discussion. And many other things. This is great, it's like a living or live resume.
Tim (21:44)
I love the way you just described it, a live resume. That's exactly what it is. If you're a photographer or if you're a model, an artist, Instagram can be your life portfolio. You know, so I really think it's important. I don't think it matters that it's curated. A lot of people ask me, like, should I have a color scheme or should I use fancy, you know, apps or whatever. I don't think that's as important.
And then, um, to your point, I recently posted something that I'd said, “Hey, I would love to host an event or be a panelist or judge a panel or something, judge a contest.” You know, here's me putting myself out there. And I think there's no shame in using social media to promote yourself and to ask for what you want.
And I've already had people say, oh, I didn't know. You're interested in hosting events. We'll definitely keep you in mind.
Hanna (22:34)
So what should our bartenders or chefs or sommeliers, or anybody who's working in our industry, what should they be doing on their social media? You gave us three amazing pitching tips. Do you have any tips they can share for social media marketing?
Tim (22:49)
Yeah, I would say post often, you don't have to post every day, but post at least a couple of times a week. You want to make sure that people see that you're actively working in your field. The second thing I would say is make sure, especially if you're a bartender, let's say, make sure you're tagging the brands that you're using.
You know, let's say you made an amazing Espresso Martini using whatever brand, make sure you're tagging that alcohol brand, because if they like your photo, they'll see it on their page and be like, “Who's this bartender? I didn't know about him. Wow. How did he make this espresso martini? It looks so fantastic.”
And they might start following you. They might start offering you an opportunity to work with them. So don't be shy about tagging brands because that's how you get the ball rolling in terms of exposure. Now make sure you're only tagging things that relate to the post of the product. What I don't like is when people tag me in a post cause they're trying to get my attention to write about them. And I was like, wait, wait, wait, I have nothing to do with this brand or this product. It's actually more misleading when you tag a journalist or outlets in the post.
But I would say the third tip I would give for social media is make sure you write a caption, you know, make sure you explain what you're posting. You might think this is the best Espresso Martini ever. And you. And I'll like it. But what I don't realize is, oh, this is actually using real cacao or this is using a limited edition of vodka that you can't find in the U.S. If you don't tell me those things, I won't know. And I'll just think it's a regular photo. And so the more explain in your caption of what you're posting, why you're posting it again, the more engagement you're going to get from your audience.
Hanna (24:32)
As huge fans of wine, we really, really, really love you're
in those adorable little cans! So cute.
Michael (24:44)
We love the crushable flavor profile, the unique name and the fun packaging.
Hanna (24:48)
It's so bright and you can’t miss it.
Tim (24:50)
Yeah. So during the pandemic, you know, my husband and I started our own canned wine brand called So Gay Rosé. And, you know, besides the fact that it's a funny name and like you mentioned a very Instagramable package, it comes in a can and you get four cans in a box. But really for me, it was taking this phrase, that's so gay, and turning it from a negative phrase into a positive phrase. And so we wanted a wine that was fine, and you can just kind of have fun with it and, and post about it on social media, but also a wine brand that has a story behind it.
And this was a very important story that I've always wanted to tell as someone who didn't come out till I was much later in life. You know, I wanted to make sure that I created a brand that people could rally behind and have a story, a message behind. And so that's how So Gay Rosé, started.
Hanna (25:50)
I remember reading your personal journey and how you came up with this idea. It was a very personal, it was a very touching and it was very inspiring. And I said to myself, we got to buy this. This is a beautiful story and let’s buy and support the cause. And I thought it was so beautifully done. So congrats. But I have a question for you though. How do you balance running a business with a full time job as a journalist?
Tim (26:11)
So I think I really enjoy everything I do. So it never feels like a burden or to never feel stressful to come home from my Rolling Stone job and be like, “oh gosh, I’ve got to work on my So Gay Rosé stuff for today. It is so fun. And it's so motivating for me to be working on these things.
I actually never get stressed out. I also feel like I'm someone who has always had a very high work ethic. And so if you gave me the choice between coming home and watching Netflix for three hours, or working on building a rosé brand. I would choose building the rosé brand because I would feel like my three hours that evening were way more productive than if I would have sat on the couch, eating takeout and watching Netflix.
That's not to say I don't enjoy a Netflix binge every now and then. But I'm just someone who's very driven and motivated to always be doing something new and exciting and challenging myself. And so with the wine, the other thing too is, again, the wine is such a personal project, I want to give it the attention it deserves.
Michael (27:18)
Where can our listeners find it?
Tim (27:19)
Yeah, you can buy it online at sogayrose.com and we ship to all the states and they'll come delivered to your door. We had talked earlier about, um, when you're pitching a brand, make sure you have multiple angles that you can pitch me, you know, so I have stories to write about. And so we've tried doing that too, with the wine, you know, you have sort of like the gay coming out journey story, but this is also a wine with zero sugar. And when you taste it, it wasn't probably what people expect in a rosé. It's definitely more tart, more dry, because there's no sugar, zero sugar under 80 calories.
And then the other angle we can pitch is also just like a fun angle, which is for beach parties, pool parties, pride, birthday parties, whatever. You can order some rosé, it can come to your door and you know, everyone has little cans so you don't have to worry about wasting a bottle if you crack open a bottle.
Hanna (28:12)
Someone should hire you as a consultant, because I think you can teach people so many great things. I might be calling you by the way.
Tim (28:20)
Yeah. And listen, I'm available. If anyone listening wants to hire me.
Hanna (28:27)
Now that the world is reopening, what travel destinations do you plan to visit and why?
Tim (28:32)
So actually, I'm on my way to Vietnam this weekend. And I've never been to Vietnam before. So I'm super excited. It's a company that is launching an electric vehicle out of Vietnam and, you know, Korea, Japan, they have really, really strong automotive industries, but Vietnam has never been known for cars. And so this is a company that's trying to change that perception.
And then this year, I'm hoping to go to Europe, my birthday's in August, I'm trying to do like a little trip to Portugal. So if anyone out there has been to Portugal and has any tips, please message me on Instagram or something, I would love to find some cool spots to go to.
Hanna (29:07)
Well, I personally have been to Portugal many times, so I will send you some recommendations to visit and eat and drink.
Michael (29:18)
All right. So we named our podcast Hospitality Forward because our industry is strong and forward-thinking. So in your opinion, what individual or company has been moving hospitality forward?
Tim (29:29)
For me, I always look at hotels. You know, I love staying in a hotel. I mean, I can't think of a chain in particular, but the hotels that I like are the ones that found a way to grow out of COVID and not dribble and not kind of panic, but they said, “Listen, this is what we're dealing with, we're going to find a way to make your experience still so enjoyable.”
I mean, here's a great example. So I went to the Pendry Hotel in San Diego last year, maybe 2020, right, in the middle of COVID. And I went there because it was an easy road-trip from LA. And, you know, they said we have all these new rules in place because of COVID.
But what they ended up doing was instead of like go to the bar, for example, they had someone deliver a cocktail kit to my room. So you can create your own bar and it had like mixers and a shaker and, um, all these little things for you to create your own cocktail in your room. If you didn't feel comfortable, you know, going to a bar. And then every room had a really great amenity kit. Now, usually amenity kits, you know, include floss toothpaste or toothbrush. And now they had really great like, 95 masks and hand sanitizers. And, you know, it's just a little thoughtful touch like that.
Hanna (30:46)
I think it was the innovation and the creativity that really got us through this pandemic.
And our industry is an amazing example of how people are resilient. They weren't giving up and look at how we survived. And now so many businesses are thriving. So in addition to your So Gay Rosé wine. Do you also enjoy a cocktail?
Tim (31:14)
I do, I love a cocktail. I love and a Negroni. And I love a dirty vodka Martini. Those are my two go-tos.
Hanna (31:22)
If you have to pick one person that you can share your Negroni or dirty martini with, who would it be?
Tim (31:30)
I don't know. That's a really great question. I've always wanted to, I mean, I've talked about it but I really liked Mariah Carey. So like, in terms of a celebrity, I interviewed her over the phone, but it'd be great to have a drink with her in person. But I think it would be someone more like in politics or like a business owner or someone like that. Um, you know, I used to really be inspired by people who started like the people behind, like TOMS shoes back in the day, you know, the shoe brand. And I would love to know people who started these brands. Like, how did you grow it? How did it get so successful? You know, I just want to absorb some of your energy and like, learn from you.
Hanna (32:16)
So before we wrap up, what is the best way, follow our listeners to reach you with their amazing story ideas.
Tim (21:20)
Well, definitely you can email me. If you mention in your subject line that you heard me on this podcast, chances are I'll open your email a lot faster because now we've established a personal connection. So you can email me or follow me online (@timchan). And definitely let's connect on LinkedIn. I'd love to see what you all are doing and learn from you guys as well.
Michael (32:48)
Can people DM you their pitches or did you prefer email?
Tim (32:51)
I prefer email. I get so many DMs and it's hard to kind of separate what's real and what's not. And I try not to do a lot of business stuff over Instagram.
Hanna (33:00)
Wow. This is amazing. And your insights and practical tips that you just shared. So priceless.