Episode #6 Kate Krader, Bloomberg Pursuits

Hanna (1:10): Hi Kate!

Kate (1:12): Hi you guys! Hi Hanna, Hi Michael!

Hanna (1:13): Welcome to the show.

Kate (1:13): Excited to be here.

Michael (1:15): Us too, us too. Kate, not many people know this, but you were actually my food writing teacher many, many years ago when I was breaking into the field and to be honest, I am forever indebted to your insights and encouragement and everything you’ve shown over the years. So having you on the show means a lot to me and Hanna.

Hanna (1:37): So much.

Kate (1:38): Oh my gosh, well you know what, we do. We go back a little ways and um, I remember it was a Mediabistro class I actually taught it by accident because my coworker, I think my coworker broke her foot or something, and it was a very haphazard reason that I got there and then it turned out to be more than a dozen years ago right? 

Michael (1:58): Probably 15?

Kate (2:00): Probably 15 years ago. And that was when food writing was taking off in all these exciting ways, you know, and you could maybe start a blog and become famous and it was such a cool time to cover chefs you know, because chefs were really starting to break out and there were all these stories to be told and all these enterprising writers who were, you know, getting ready to start writing and I got to watch them come up so, I feel very happy, very lucky.

Michael (2:23):  Well you had an enormous impact on a lot of people.

Hanna (2:25): So, you’ve been covering food for more than two decades, right?

Kate (2:27): Yup, that’s true.

Hanna (2:30): And we know that you love good food and love writing. So how did these two passions come together?

Kate (2:37): Thanks for asking because I love this story. I went to school at this great college in Ohio called Kenyon, but it was a very liberal arts school and this was also like, way back. I was an English major. It wasn’t even really like there were specialties like you could get into food writing, um like you can now.

So I graduated, and I was driving home from Ohio to New York with my dad and he was like, “What are you gonna do?” Like it was that liberal arts of a school that you didn’t have to have a job at Chase Bank or something. And I was like, I guess I’m gonna be a lawyer because he was a lawyer. And it seemed like the thing I could do, or I hoped I could do.  

And he was like, NO. He didn’t like being a lawyer so he said you know you like to write and you like to eat so maybe you should go into food writing. And this was a long time ago, this was like in the late eighties and that was when food journalism was really like those old school magazines, like Good Housekeeping and certainly like Gourmet existed and Bon Appetit existed but they definitely existed for like people that had horses. It was a very, very different look. And the food was shot, like in soft focus. And the stories would be like a chicken goes around the world. Like that was a kind of headline you would see. 

So it was like a totally different world. But I got lucky and I got a job. I got to go to London and work at Family Circle magazine there. And actually the first story I got right, if you guys watch the Great British Bake Off, was a guy who profiled Mary Berry and she did a raised pork pie. And I did not look back. I was like, hanging out in the test kitchen, talking to these notable writers. And it was like everybody all of a sudden was speaking my language. Like they were so excited about food and I was so excited about food. It was like, I found my people, you know.

Michael (4:30): You found your tribe.

Kate (4:31): I found my tribe! Precisely.

Michael (4:33): But you are also classically trained in the kitchen at La Varenne in Paris. So did you want to become a chef or what was the trajectory?

Kate (4:35): You know what? That's an excellent question and yay you for doing your homework. So I went to London and I came back and then I wanted to get a job. But I met with somebody at The New York Times, actually, and they were like, you know, if you want to write about food, you should know what you're writing about. Like, you should know if you want to sit in a restaurant. Because really, what I wanted to be then was like the restaurant critic and they were like, if you want to do that, then you should know what's going on. 

Like, if your chicken comes to the table overcooked, you want to know if it's because the chef screwed up or because the waiter wasn't doing, you know, the waiter wasn't doing his job, like if you want to have an informed opinion. And so, at about that time, I got offered an internship at La Varenne in Paris and I actually didn't want to do it. I had a really serious boyfriend and I really wanted to get a job that paid money. 

I been like living on no money for a while, but everyone was like, go to La Varenne. So I went to La Varenne and it was the best thing I ever did. Like talk about finding your tribe. That was where, I mean, I think everyone's had that moment and I know you guys have, but when you taste a raspberry…like they had they had a garden, I was most of the time in Burgundy.

They had a chateau in Burgundy where they taught classes. I know it sounds really nice and it was. But they had a garden and I remember eating a raspberry and then going to some of those markets and it was as if I'd never tasted a raspberry before, like some of that fruit and some of those chickens, and everything that you ate just seemed like the best possible version of it and it was just awesome. 

Hanna (6:19): Getting hungry already. 

Michael (06:21)So before Bloomberg, you were the restaurant editor at Food & Wine magazine. Would you say that your culinary training enriched your food writing and enriched your, you know, your reviews of restaurants?

Kate (06:23): Yeah. Like I was at Food & Wine for a long time. I was there for a total actually of almost 20 years because I came back from La Varenne. So I started off actually as a Food Editor and a Recipe Editor.

And I was so perfectly happy because like, basically what that meant then was, you know, you would find recipe stories. And that was, at a time I mean, this was in the 90s, so I got to be in charge of the Best New Chefs program, which had just sort of started. And that was great. That was just fantastic to be involved with. But I also got to find chefs who were doing something cool. And what we did then, which was really interesting, is, you know, it had been like a salmon goes around the world or a fish goes around the world. 

And then with Dana Cowin, who became the Editor in Chief, who was so forward thinking, she was like, you know what? Instead of doing that same old story, let's go talk to fishmongers and ask them the difference between, like, wild salmon versus farmed salmon. She really brought into the magazines, like sidebars and like extra added information. 

And that was fantastic because it made you want to not just look at something, but you want to look around the corner and see what else you could talk about. I mean, this is going way back. And now, I feel like food magazines are architectural artifacts at this point. Like you can barely find one. And they're as thin as, you know, they look like a tearaway thing. 

But at this time, this was really a time, if you’ve ever read Ruth Reichl’s book, what was it? Save Me the Plums. Like, you sort of know a cover shoot would take like a week to plan. This time was so indulgent when you could really, like, spend time figuring out what was going to be the ultimate cover food and what you would be writing thousands of words about it. And it really was awesome.

Hanna (08:24) Yeah, I mean love Dana. Food & Wine magazine, I'm still a huge fan and we subscribe. Now, let's talk about your current home. Your new home. So for our listeners, can you tell us what you normally cover at Bloomberg?

Kate (08:45) So, now I'm a Bloomberg and specifically my section is Bloomberg Pursuits, which is sort of the leisure arm of Bloomberg. So I cover food and restaurants for Bloomberg and I've actually been there for four years now, which seems like a crazy time. 

Four years, isn’t that crazy? But yeah, so I had spent the majority of my time looking for a cool…I remember like one story I got to do was a salmon that was coming from New Zealand that was farmed in a really environmentally safe way, that was starting to make its rounds into the U.S. So I would kind of get to do that as well as see what some of the trends were. I actually one story that I love the most, I think, was how salt was disappearing from restaurant tables.

Hanna (9:35): Yes.

Kate (9:36): And that was for a number of things. But part of that was because there were so many different ethnic foods that had become so popular, you didn't need a salt shaker, like salt was not part of the equation anymore. And also those old school saltshakers that you would see in a diner were crappy.

You know, they only had that disgusting iodized salt. And otherwise, especially if you think about it now, but you had like a little bowl or a little dish for flaky salt, that’s the most unhygienic thing you can think of. Like there nobody had invented the great new salt shaker basically.

Hanna (10:07): True, yeah.

Kate (10:10): But now, with the pandemic on, I’ve changed my focus to covering the recovery of the restaurant world mostly. So we're always looking for stories. We just got to do a great one, with someone who you guys know, SIN-jin from Fort Defiance, who wrote this beautiful story about having to give up his bar Fort Defiance in Red Hook and why he was happy about it.

And it covered so many things, from PPP loans to groceries to the neighborhood. If you haven't, I urge anyone who's listening to read it because he did a gorgeous job. 

Michael (10:47): Very much so. 

Kate (10:48): Wasn’t it great?

Hanna (10:50): And you know it's a very heartbreaking as you said, but a happy ending.

Michael (10:51): He's happier now than before.

Kate (10:54): Isn't that true. And you wouldn't have known it but yeah, I know he talked about like, going into Red Hook, he really opened his bar at a time before you would have completely bet on Brooklyn let alone a neighborhood like Red Hook.

Michael (11:03): Always seems to be one step ahead.

Kate (11:06): He is always ahead, you're exactly right Michael.

Michael (11:11): He was part of the hipster Vanguard, although he would probably hate the term. So how would you say a food story for Bloomberg is different than one you would write for an iconic food publication? 

Kate (11:23): Well, everything's changed so much. But at Bloomberg there's definitely an interest in data and numbers. So one other thing I've done at Bloomberg since the start of the pandemic is start a column called Lunch Break and it comes out every Friday. 

Michael (10:40): We’re fans of it.

Hanna (10:43): I love it, its one of my favorite new columns

Kate (10:45): Oh my God, Hanna. Oh. But it's been great because you get to highlight new cookbooks, which sometimes now you get to give them like a little extra measure of the spotlight because, if you think about it like promotional tours are gone, it's not as easy even as people are cooking at home. It's harder for new cookbooks to make noise than they might have before. 

So I get to find a new cookbook and find a recipe, preferably one that has a hack, like something that you wouldn't have thought to do. And so the first one I did, is actually the best example, it was from the Phoenicia Diner, which is a really popular diner out in the Catskills. And they had a recipe for a bacon, egg and cheese sandwich.

But what they did, what they point out, which I hadn't known and now I tell everybody, is the reason like if you've had a BEC from a bodega or a cart on the street, especially in New York, it's better than when you make it home or that you get in a restaurant. And the reason is because they wrap it in foil before they give it to you. 

And that gives the sandwich a minute to steam, like in the bun. So the egg and the cheese and the bacon come together in this really cohesive way. And so that was something they wrote in that cookbook and that was like bang. That's awesome. And so that's the kind of recipe we look for. So as a long prelude to your question, Michael, the difference in stories for Bloomberg is, for one thing, they love reading about people in the industry. So if you work at Goldman Sachs and you open a restaurant I can pretty, definitely write about you. 

I mean there is definitely an interest in, you know, like the financial markets and what's happening there, vis-à-vis food and what people in the finance world are investing in. So things like Impossible Burgers are always going to be popular at Bloomberg, but they're also like, people are smart and they're really into food and they're really into restaurants.

So they do want to know what's happening. Like what if there is a trend, it's like the power lunch is over and the power breakfast is in. If Red Hook is becoming really popular then it might be that you'll call the mayor's office or get hooked up to somebody who's working in real estate and they can tell you, “Oh they just changed the zoning laws there.”

There's generally like one extra step or one extra hoop you go through at Bloomberg. I think it’s sort of usually business related. But it’s just thinking sometimes a little bit left field. Like another great story I got to edit recently, I have a writer who I like a lot. Larissa Zimberoff off she's great. And she said she found there was this awesome chocolate company in San Francisco called Dandelion. 

Hanna (14:42): Oh my god, we know it! We love that chocolate.

Kate (14:44): Isn’t it fantastic?

Michael (14:45): It's good with cocktails.

Kate (14:47): Oh my God. That's good to know. I just had one of those chocolate chips today and I was like, this is really almost savory. So tell me what cocktail I need to have it with?

Michael (14:54): Something stirred and boozy, like a Manhattan, would be my recommendation.

Kate (14:56): Ok!

Hanna (14:57): But let's face it, a Manhattan goes well with anything. 

Kate (15:02): I was going to say yeah, the all purpose. It's like the Champagne of cocktails right.

Michael (15:09): Exactly. Absolutely. So going back to cookbooks for a minute, you mentioned the Impossible cookbook, which we love. I've tried a bunch of the recipes and I love that you really can't tell it's plant based meat. But I mean, obviously there are thousands and thousands of cookbooks out there with new ones being published almost everyday, it seems. How do you choose them? You know, you can only choose a handful relatively speaking, right?

Kate (15:26): Some of it's based on what the content is and what will appeal for Lunch Break because, one of the restrictions of Lunch Break is you really are trying to help people figure out what to have for lunch as they're working from home. So I did a cool recipe a week or two ago that was for fried chicken popcorn, and basically it was like making popcorn instead of using oil. You cook it in butter, an obscene amount of butter, and then you flavor it with MSG which I’m a fan of, and chicken bullion powder and granulated garlic.

And it was fascinating, it was a fun recipe to do, but it didn't do very well. People didn't really read it because in spite of the fact that it's fascinating, it doesn't really solve you're like “What am I going to eat now?” So, every once in a while you have to do those recipes that you think are cool even if you know the story won't do so well. 

But the ideal, I mean you want to find a great cookbook. Like this Kelly Fields cookbook is like one of the best cookbooks of the year. So I feel really happy I got to do that. But then George W. Bush's former chef came out with a sort of memoir and I was lucky, I looked through it because it turned out to be this really beautiful cookbook. It wasn't filled with ridiculous hors d'oeuvres with 100 ingredients that they made for Putin when Putin came to town. It was what he really cooked for the Bush family at The Ranch. And there were stories about Angela Merkel, like walking around Crawford where their ranch is. And so that turned out to be like, that's the best of it. 

I mean you have to spend some time and especially now when you get very few real hardcover cookbooks, like most of them are PDFs. So it takes a long time to go through them and figure out what's there. But you're trying to solve a couple things, which is what people can eat that seems a little bit different but it's also really accessible. Because in general I would say Bloomberg audience isn't like “Give me a three day project recipe.” That's not where they live. 

So if there is a way to find a cookbook that's raising money for something I love highlighting that. And then you also just look for a variety of things. You know, like different cuisines, different people and certainly big cookbooks but also some smaller ones too. It's nice to find them and feel like you're giving something to someone and helping that person get visibility for their book.

Hanna (17:58): That's nice. I mean you know, Michael and I are huge bookworms and we have a hundreds of books at the office and home.

Michael (18:03): We’re running out of space

Kate (18:04): I know the feeling

Hanna (18:06): We keep ordering the books from your column. 

Michael (18:10): You’re the next Oprah Book Club. 

Hanna (18:15): All right, so. Speaking of chefs and dining, let's talk about outdoor dining. Um, this is what’s happening in our industry right now. So, we enjoy seeing you out and about on Instagram enjoying dining and drinking in the city. So any particular restaurants that stand out?

Kate (18:40): I'm so happy you asked me that question because we actually have a big story on Bloomberg about outdoor dining and going beyond, because in Bloomberg we spend a lot of time in Manhattan and Midtown, at least pre-pandemic in Soho and The Village. And this is going around four of the five boroughs, sorry Staten Island. But we're going from Brooklyn to the Bronx, and calling out cool new outdoor dining situations in places like Jackson Heights in places like Bruckner Boulevard. 

A couple of them if you, I would urge everyone to go to Governors Island if you haven't been there because that season ends at some point and they’ve really done a great job, it's called Island Oyster, and it's like a short boat ride away and you'll feel like you're somewhere else. It's completely safe because it's really socially distanced. It's awesome. There's also a place in Brooklyn called Kokomo, that’s Caribbean. It's in Williamsburg. That's also just superb. Like, great, great, great. And then places that you might know of. I'm a big fan of Cote Korean Steakhouse.

Hanna (19:50): Yes. That's a favorite. We love it. We love it.

Kate (19:54): They've done such a good job. They've created a frozé. I mean, they have like a monumental mixologist. But he was like, you know what I'll do first, if I need to make frozé for people, I'll make frozé. Sondre Kasin is so great. All the drinks are drinks you want to drink. The quality is so good. But they've, they've done a really good job. 

Like they've started making fried chicken because they were like that's what people want to eat. So that was good. A restaurant that you might know called Carbone, they created this great restaurant. It sort of is almost as if you're eating indoors, but outdoors and the servers are great. And I’m a big Wildair fan, and they’ve taken over a little bit of Ludlow Street, or Orchard Street. And they've set up and they're doing some fun food. Those are the ones that stand out to me right now. 

Michael (20:49): So going back to your coverage for a moment, you did a great story on David Rockwell and his vision of the restaurant of the future. And it was pretty out there, like almost, you know, sci-fi stuff, like modular food growing beds and movable hydroponic green walls and apiaries on the rooftop. You know, a lot of food for thought. Utterly fascinating. What's your take on it? What do you think the prospects are for this coming to life?

Kate (21:14): I mean, I think for sure David Rockwell is doing it. David Rockwell is one of the best and most successful architects and restaurant designers, not just in this country, but in the world. So if that's the plan he's drawing up, we're going to see it. There's no, that's unquestionable. I think the question is, when? And then the hard question also was like, how many restaurants are there going to be left to do it? 

Like, I believe in New York City and I believe we're going to get through this. But we're going through a really tough time. I mean, there is bad news everyday. And his point in doing that, thank you for pointing out all the things he did, but one thing he said, and I think it's becoming more apparent to people, is that kind of dinner-only restaurant, or an occasion restaurant, is not going to be sustainable. 

I mean, especially going forward, because it's going to take a long time for people to want to go out to eat, especially indoors. And outdoor dining with space restrictions and stuff is not a recipe for financial stability. And so, what Rockwell's argument is that you need a way to make money during the day and also be environmentally conscious and grow your own greens and, you know, cut out carbon footprint, stuff like that. 

But I think his bigger argument is that you need a reason to bring people in during the day and not waste time, not have like hours and hours of dead air, so to speak, in your restaurant 

Michael (22:45): Right, makes a lot of sense. Moving on to a more practical topic. So for our listeners, what are the three most important things to keep in mind when they pitch you?

Kate (22:55): I love that question because it's really important. I think to pitch me and to pitch people in general is to know who you're pitching. Like, spend at least an hour reading up on the place where the person works and what that person has written. Because, you know, we all have, well speak for myself, I've got a big ego. So like, the fact that you just mentioned my Rockwell piece and you clearly read it, you just scored some points with me. So thank you. 

But, you know, it's ridiculous, though, if someone starts pitching me on convention space or something like that, or they'll pitch a story that I wrote like two weeks ago. So that definitely makes me very wary of working with them. If they can't be bothered to do a little bit of homework to know, it's obvious, but it just can't be said enough, you know, besides making sure you have the person's name right. Yeah. 

The other thing is, find the story that someone else hasn't told before. And if they have told it, let me know why you're the person to tell it in a fresh way. And I think also, just know Bloomberg. Bloomberg is great because we cover food. People love food. There is a decreasing number of food outlets there now. And we also stand in sort of a unique position because we care about, there’s a certain segment of business in food. And so we especially care about our innovation in food that you can’t always do in other places.

Michael (24:27): So show some tangible results.

Kate (24:30): Yeah, tangible results. Well said, Michael. That's, we love numbers.

Hanna (24:32): Speaking of numbers, what makes you open an emai pitch. Is a subject line, make it or break it?

Kate (24:36): Um a subject line definitely helps. Yeah, I think having like a compelling subject line is really important right now. Really important. But I think a compelling one that's not too sensational. You know, if it's like, unbelievable or it's all caps or exclamation points, that's not a good move. I mean, it's it's very low hanging fruit, but I am a sucker if someone's like, “Saw the story on Tesla Chocolate, thought you'd be interested in this.” Like, I'll be like, oh, they at least did step one, you know. Like I think they know who they're talking to right now. 

I think also at this time of inclusivity, if you could make the point that you are promoting somebody or something that's minority owned, like where Bloombergs really interested in that right now, I always want to know about sustainability stuff, too. So but again, like that, that is really good for me, but that's probably not good for every single person. 

Hanna (25:44): No, that's great tips, but no exclamation point for you.

Michael (25:50): So now is the listener question part of the show and Nuvo-Hakeem Abdus-Salaam of Nuvo Kitchen wrote in. He saw your article back in March on the end of the Golden Age of restaurants. So now that we're obviously many months into this, Chef Salaam wants to know if you think things will bounce back eventually or has the golden age truly ended?

Kate (26:10): That is an excellent, excellent question. Thank you, Chef. I think the golden age is evolving. I think the golden age, I think it's going to be redefined, at least in the short term. But I think, I want to take credit for this, but Danny Meyer actually said it. He was saying that until he can open indoor dining, the way he's going to treat hospitality, is as regards outdoor dining. 

So it could be the friendliness or the greeting you get if you pull up to the curb and somebody opens your car door, opens your trunk and puts the food in or the way they take your order or the way they smises the way they smile at your behind their mask. Like the way that we define hospitality is totally different than it was a couple months ago. And so you take that and you go with it. And so I think that there's like great innovations coming. And I think that there's going to be a new age of Golden restaurants or the Bronze Age, or maybe that's backward looking? More like The Titanium Age of restaurants could be coming. 

The appreciation for restaurants and people who love them and want to eat them and get great joy and pleasure is totally, totally coming back. And for right now, it's in an odd space. But it's fantastic how people have figured out how to deliver pleasure and great experiences. And I have no doubt, like, no doubt there's too many terrifically talented people, too much passion.

Michael (27:44): Well, I think also, people's palates have evolved and they're not going to go back to, you know, mediocre food.  

Kate (27:48): I think there's an appreciation for really good food. And how home cooking has changed. There's definitely been a move towards comfort food, you know, but at the same time, like more ambitious home cooking.

And so, what people are going to want is to go to restaurants. There's definitely been a demand for foods that you can’t always make at home, like Chinese food. Not a lot of people can make really good Sichuan food at home. So there has been a big demand for that, whether it's takeout or going to eat in restaurants. And I think, like Mexican food is also really popular right now, as always. But yeah, no, I think it will be cool to see what kind of foods in restaurants people are interested in.

Hanna (28:45): I wish we could speak to you more and more, for another two hours. We so enjoy speaking with you, every minute of it. So thank you. This has been so wonderful and great to chat with you and we love you Kate.

Kate (29:00): I love you guys right back. Thank you so much for letting me talk to you and having me on your awesome podcast. And um I am psyched to see you guys in person sometime soon.